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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #411
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    It may all come to that. Actually, it's inevitable that it will come to something like that. But meanwhile that would represent a change of policy.

    Insurance companies can refuse to fund treatments that are futile at the present time, but that doesn't include simple life sustaining care. There is only one state, Texas, where doctors can decide to withdraw life sustaining care from a patient if it is futile to continue care. (But you might have guessed. Most states are trying to abolish the death penalty. In Texas they are putting it on a fast track.)

    Unless I'm mistaken, even in a Hospice they continue simple life sustaining care unless the patient refuses it.
    Once a person has entered the hospice program, they will be kept comfortable; pain will be controlled. Nothing will be done that slows the course of their disease. They do not feed someone artifically. I'm not sure about fluids. Most people, if they have a brain cell working, have healthcare powers of attorney that cover them during this difficult time.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The details don't matter, if it's ten to one or thirty to one, the probability is that more people with that illness at that stage, are likely to die than not. It's not a "death sentence", it's a prognosis. It gives the patient a statistical basis for forward planning. Would you rather not be told and arrive at your deathbed unprepared?
    I'll BET you wouldn't say that if it were you or one of yours! It's really a disgusting position. To hell with that 10% because we want to save money!

    And your point about "not being told" is in the OP! It says that people are NOT being informed and just having their treatment and/or palliative care withdrawn.

    To Maggie: It is ONLY a matter of time before they want to save money again, who's next?

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Only if you allow pigs power. The whole point is to so arrange it that people can't buy life at other people's expense. People are not equal or unequal, because no-one knows what they are for. Everyone, therefore, deserves equal chances of life, and anyone who supposes otherwise should think carefully about his own claims to humanity.
    Frankly, the bolded is what happens in government health care programs. People are buying life at the expense of others' pocketbooks.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Frankly, the bolded is what happens in government health care programs. People are buying life at the expense of others' pocketbooks.
    No, we are looking after our brothers and sisters, all of us having paid for what is our right. Stop blathering extremist propaganda: we pay for what we get, while you are obsessed with money and spend it only on killing. Come ON!

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Stop blathering extremist propaganda: we pay for what we get, while you are obsessed with money and spend it only on killing. Come ON!
    I'll tell ya what. You refrain from trying to tell me what to say, and I'll do the same for you. 'Kay?

    You can believe whatever you like, but when a government health care system is functioning, the taxpayers (most of whom are the wealthy) are paying for the health care of other people.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Same to you.
    I am not the one telling people they should just give up and die though. I would make it THEIR decision and NOT mine, so you are wrong again.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    Only if you allow pigs power. The whole point is to so arrange it that people can't buy life at other people's expense. People are not equal or unequal, because no-one knows what they are for. Everyone, therefore, deserves equal chances of life, and anyone who supposes otherwise should think carefully about his own claims to humanity.
    It all boils down to money. Whoever has more of it gets better treatment, and those who have less do not. Until all currency is abolished, and resources are divided equally amongst everyone, this fact remains.

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    It may all come to that. Actually, it's inevitable that it will come to something like that. But meanwhile that would represent a change of policy.

    Insurance companies can refuse to fund treatments that are futile at the present time, but that doesn't include simple life sustaining care. There is only one state, Texas, where doctors can decide to withdraw life sustaining care from a patient if it is futile to continue care. (But you might have guessed. Most states are trying to abolish the death penalty. In Texas they are putting it on a fast track.)

    Unless I'm mistaken, even in a Hospice they continue simple life sustaining care unless the patient refuses it.
    Hospice does not give life sustaining care. It gives comfort to the dying.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'll BET you wouldn't say that if it were you or one of yours! It's really a disgusting position. To hell with that 10% because we want to save money!

    And your point about "not being told" is in the OP! It says that people are NOT being informed and just having their treatment and/or palliative care withdrawn.

    To Maggie: It is ONLY a matter of time before they want to save money again, who's next?
    Please. Enough with this "you're next/who is next" mantra. Cancer patients are not being left alone to die. These are patients who are in the process of dying. Here's what you're saying: a person has been diagnosed with cancer and told they have six months to live. Off to LCP they go. This is not what is happening! These are people who are lying in a hospital bed connected to wires and tubes. Many of these people are not even conscious.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    It all boils down to money. Whoever has more of it gets better treatment, and those who have less do not. Until all currency is abolished, and resources are divided equally amongst everyone, this fact remains.



    Hospice does not give life sustaining care. It gives comfort to the dying.



    Please. Enough with this "you're next/who is next" mantra. Cancer patients are not being left alone to die. These are patients who are in the process of dying. Here's what you're saying: a person has been diagnosed with cancer and told they have six months to live. Off to LCP they go. This is not what is happening! These are people who are lying in a hospital bed connected to wires and tubes. Many of these people are not even conscious.
    That's not what it says in the OP. It says that many of them ARE conscious and also that they are NOT informed. When you can just put a LIFE on the back burner because people don't want to "pay," then we have LOST our humanity and our sympathy!

    If someone WANTS to be put out of their misery, then that would be fine. These people either do NOT want to be, or they are not being informed, and neither are their families. Why? To save money. You can be naive and think that when they are low on funds again they won't take that a step further if you want, but when you put price tags on human beings, THAT is where you are going.

  9. #419
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'll BET you wouldn't say that if it were you or one of yours! It's really a disgusting position. To hell with that 10% because we want to save money!

    And your point about "not being told" is in the OP! It says that people are NOT being informed and just having their treatment and/or palliative care withdrawn.

    To Maggie: It is ONLY a matter of time before they want to save money again, who's next?
    No offense, but you are reminding me why I believe men make better leaders on average. You let your emotions trump logic. Which is better, a year of happiness or thirty years of suffering?
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  10. #420
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    That's not what it says in the OP. It says that many of them ARE conscious and also that they are NOT informed. When you can just put a LIFE on the back burner because people don't want to "pay," then we have LOST our humanity and our sympathy!

    If someone WANTS to be put out of their misery, then that would be fine. These people either do NOT want to be, or they are not being informed, and neither are their families. Why? To save money. You can be naive and think that when they are low on funds again they won't take that a step further if you want, but when you put price tags on human beings, THAT is where you are going.
    All of us have price tags. Two people go missing. One of them is a celebrity, and the other one is an average person with significantly less money. Which person will get more resources dedicated to finding them? Certainly not the average person who doesn't get publicity, or the funds to pay for the search. Healthcare is the same. It always boils down to money. These aren't my rules. It's just how it is.

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