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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #401
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Given her diagnosis, the probability is that based on previous cases, people with that diagnosis at that stage of the illness will be dead within a year. There are always exceptions, but past experience says that for every 100 people in her situation, 97 of them will die in the next year. Three won't, and happily for her she was one of those three. No godlike decisions needed, it's a simple calculation, but it's never 100% accurate, which is why people are never told flatly that "X" will happen, only that it's probable.
    Much like weather forecasting, they can be much more accurate the closer to the event they get. Even then, in the final stage of life, the LCP has an "escape" clause where if the patient shows improvement, they are removed from the care pathway, and treatment is reviewed.
    Well my link says 10% of people survive. They are STILL people, even with a death sentence.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is ALL about saving money. When they pull crap like this, what's to stop them from withdrawing care from any other patients that are considered "terminal?" Whether or not they are old, have feeding tubes, oxygen tubes, or what not, it is STILL withholding care to save money. It is SHAMEFUL unless a patient specifically states that is his or her wishes.
    It's about not prolonging the inevitable dying process unnecessarily. If I were bedridden, semi-conscious and completely dependent on others for managing all my bodily functions, with no hope of recovery, I wouldn't thank you for prolonging such an existence.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It's about not prolonging the inevitable dying process unnecessarily. If I were bedridden, semi-conscious and completely dependent on others for managing all my bodily functions, with no hope of recovery, I wouldn't thank you for prolonging such an existence.
    Something you need to realize is that not everyone feels the way YOU do.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    People are being put on the Liverpool Care Pathway without consent. Or at least that's what's being alleged.
    My opinion: they should be told they are being put on LCP and given the chance to either get a second opinion or pay for their own care. Resources are limited. You can wish real hard that they're not, but they are. The people that have the greatest chance of full recovery so that they can continue to pay into the system should be given priority. Otherwise, the system will collapse. But of course, it already is on the verge of collapse. The funding for these ridiculous costs just isn't there. It's not fair, I know. It simply isn't fair that some people get cancer. Hell, I'll probably get cancer myself and be in this same position. However, I wont expect that anyone will give a damn.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    Yes, anyone who doesn't agree with you must be "primitives." Like it or not, all lives have a price tag on them. Even you value yourself and your family's life more than a stranger's. How much of your money would you give away to help people you don't know? The fact remains: healthcare will always be rationed according to who can pay more. Such is life.

    Only if you allow pigs power. The whole point is to so arrange it that people can't buy life at other people's expense. People are not equal or unequal, because no-one knows what they are for. Everyone, therefore, deserves equal chances of life, and anyone who supposes otherwise should think carefully about his own claims to humanity.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well my link says 10% of people survive. They are STILL people, even with a death sentence.
    The details don't matter, if it's ten to one or thirty to one, the probability is that more people with that illness at that stage, are likely to die than not. It's not a "death sentence", it's a prognosis. It gives the patient a statistical basis for forward planning. Would you rather not be told and arrive at your deathbed unprepared?
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Something you need to realize is that not everyone feels the way YOU do.
    Same to you.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    People are being put on the Liverpool Care Pathway without consent. Or at least that's what's being alleged.
    Alleged is the key word, and we're not LiverPool.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    This is ALL about saving money. When they pull crap like this, what's to stop them from withdrawing care from any other patients that are considered "terminal?" Whether or not they are old, have feeding tubes, oxygen tubes, or what not, it is STILL withholding care to save money. It is SHAMEFUL unless a patient specifically states that is his or her wishes.
    Few of us here have said that what you're suggesting should be done with discussing it with the patient and/or his family. You're off on a toot somewhere arguing against something no one is arguing for.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    My opinion: they should be told they are being put on LCP and given the chance to either get a second opinion or pay for their own care. Resources are limited. You can wish real hard that they're not, but they are. The people that have the greatest chance of full recovery so that they can continue to pay into the system should be given priority. Otherwise, the system will collapse. But of course, it already is on the verge of collapse. The funding for these ridiculous costs just isn't there. It's not fair, I know. It simply isn't fair that some people get cancer. Hell, I'll probably get cancer myself and be in this same position. However, I wont expect that anyone will give a damn.
    It may all come to that. Actually, it's inevitable that it will come to something like that. But meanwhile that would represent a change of policy.

    Insurance companies can refuse to fund treatments that are futile at the present time, but that doesn't include simple life sustaining care. There is only one state, Texas, where doctors can decide to withdraw life sustaining care from a patient if it is futile to continue care. (But you might have guessed. Most states are trying to abolish the death penalty. In Texas they are putting it on a fast track.)

    Unless I'm mistaken, even in a Hospice they continue simple life sustaining care unless the patient refuses it.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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