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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #341
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    That's not what is happening here.
    Care minister Norman Lamb is quoted as saying:

    "It is clear that everyone wants their loved ones' final hours of life to be as pain free and dignified as possible, and the Liverpool Care Pathway is an important part of achieving this aim."

    "However, as we have seen, there have been too many cases where patients were put on the pathway without a proper explanation or their families being involved. This is simply unacceptable."
    What is the Liverpool Care Pathway? - Health News - NHS Choices

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    There is a world of difference between injecting someone or smothering them with a pillow and withdrawing life prolonging treatment.
    You're absolutely correct. My opposition in this thread is calling for putting people down. That was the premise of the OP. Is that not what you're calling for?
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  3. #343
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    It confirms that an investigation has been launched about the LCP, that allegations have surfaced that people are being put on the LCP involuntarily, and so on.
    Yes, thats what they said in 2009. What happened to that investigation? It kinda looks like The Telegraph and the Daily Mail are just recycling an old story to keep people stoked up in order to keep their agenda relevant.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You ARE aware that there are cases when doctors tell a patient that he/she cannot survive, and they beat the odds and DO survive. A doctor's prognosis is NOT always correct and all-knowing, but a guesstimate a LOT of the times.

    I don't mind paying for other people's healthcare who can't afford it themselves. THAT is a good use of money IMO.
    Appeal to probability fallacy. Just because doctors are wrong sometimes, does not mean they are wrong most of the time. In fact, if they weren't right MUCH more often then everyone else, then we wouldn't need them. Are you suggesting we don't need doctors? Because it sounds like you are suggesting we only need doctors when they tell you what you want to hear.

  5. #345
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You're absolutely correct. My opposition in this thread is calling for putting people down. That was the premise of the OP. Is that not what you're calling for?
    Wow. Just wow. Please cite Post #s where anyone has suggested "putting people down." Can't intelligent conversations about this important subject take place without over-the-top hyperbole?
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  6. #346
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Care minister Norman Lamb is quoted as saying:

    "It is clear that everyone wants their loved ones' final hours of life to be as pain free and dignified as possible, and the Liverpool Care Pathway is an important part of achieving this aim."
    ...
    What is the Liverpool Care Pathway? - Health News - NHS Choices

    That statement is accurate, unlike the "death pathway" nonsense in the OP.
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  7. #347
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yes, thats what they said in 2009. What happened to that investigation? It kinda looks like The Telegraph and the Daily Mail are just recycling an old story to keep people stoked up in order to keep their agenda relevant.
    No, these are recent headlines. See for example:

    Liverpool Care Pathway: minister orders independent review | Society | The Guardian

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  8. #348
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    That statement is accurate, unlike the "death pathway" nonsense in the OP.
    Actually, that's a term I coined, and absolutely accurate, too. The LCP always ends up with the patient dying, which can be a good thing if it's done ethically.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  9. #349
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Actually, that's a term I coined, and absolutely accurate, too. The LCP always ends up with the patient dying, which can be a good thing if it's done ethically.
    LOL Really? Isn't that like saying nobody survives a nursing home? Heck, lets just call them death traps since nobody gets out alive. meeeh

    Speaking of which there seems to be a lot of elderly abuse in some "private" nursing homes. Does that bother you or is it just government funded hospice care?

    You know there was a time when families took care of their own elderly folks and it was just part of life. Today, society has removed themselves from the painful ugliness of dying by shuttering the elderly and dying away so we don't have to see it. Gawd, I can't wait to get old.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Wow. Just wow. Please cite Post #s where anyone has suggested "putting people down." Can't intelligent conversations about this important subject take place without over-the-top hyperbole?
    That was the whole topic of this thread, sedating people and withdrawing life sustaining care without them or their families consenting to it.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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