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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #331
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    Nonsense. I am proposing a sensible approach to healthcare and budgeting rather than an emotion driven diatribe about human value.
    You have a proposal? Where?



    Sure you did. Keeping terminally ill people alive only to suffer equates to just what I said.
    I did when? Not all terminally ill people would agree with your assertion and would rather suffer than to die. But then I never made the claim that you are lying about anyways, and please quit lying to my face. I prefer that dishonest people like yourself lie behind my back like the dogs that they are.

    Did you get my meaning? See now for everyone here not to think of you as lair you would need to prove that I said what you are accusing me of. The problem is that I did not say that which means that you are lying. So please stop this dishonest bull**** now its not winning you anything in this debate.







    Nope. It's your emotive approach to this argument that led you to insult me. And now you resort to hyperbole by comparing the everyday costs of living for a healthy person to the expensive and pointless costs of maintaining life for the dying.
    I did not insult you I suggested that you should kill yourself to save us money. On the other hand you insulted me by lying to me in my face as if I wouldnt notice that you lied about what I actually said.




    No, I am not back pedaling at all, but you are nitpicking. It is true that I did not use the word "average," though. Good for you.
    I could quote where you said 10k but then its pointless since I agree that intensive care is expensive.





    If you want to start a separate thread about how to reform healthcare, please feel free to do so. I will gladly debate you on that topic there.
    Hmm that is interesting since you brought up that you have a proposal for healthcare in this thread. SO what you are saying is that you can talk about whats wrong with the healthcare system in this thread and I cannot? Isnt that just a bit hypocritical?

    But then I do not debate with people that are openly dishonest like yourself. SO is there anything else that you are going to try to say that i said that I did not? Let me make it clear though that what I said was that terminally ill [people want the choice in their own hands or if they are unable to because of their condition to make a choice known that they want someone who they have entrusted with that decision. They do not want the hospital, the insurance company, medicaid or medicare, the Government (any of them) they dont want to take a vote or do whats is popular, they dont want a political party or a ideology to tell them when its time to die how and why or how much suffering that can endure. And I would guess that there is no one on this planet that wants you personally to make that decision for them.

    Not once did I even imply that we should keep people alive so that they can suffer longer. Dude have you been drinking or are you always like this?

  2. #332
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Did you read the article you posted? It doesn't support the claims of The Daily Telegraph or The Daily Mail.

    "Anonymous doctors?" That seems to be a favorite tact by conservative rags. A fact would require the sources could be verified.
    It confirms that an investigation has been launched about the LCP, that allegations have surfaced that people are being put on the LCP involuntarily, and so on.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  3. #333
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Take away all the pejorative language in the OP, and you've got Hospice Care. We've had that path in the United States for quite some time.
    Hospice care without informed consent? I don't think so.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  4. #334
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    Almost no one who has paid into social security, medicaid, or medicare will pay enough into these systems to cover their costs. Fact. Of course exceptions exist, but this remains fact for a majority of people. In fact, most people are receiving benefits they never paid for. This isn't about compassion, it's about math. Either the money is there, or it's not. And I'm sorry to inform you- it is not. The money to pay for terminally ill people to eke out another several miserable months on the tax payer's dime simply doesn't exist. According to a source cited in this thread a few pages back, it costs $10,000 a day to maintain someone in the intensive care unit. $50 billion a year to maintain terminally ill patients, and up 30% of that cost has no meaningful impact. If people want to think with their emotions, fine, but at some point they need to come back down here to reality and understand that everything has a cost.
    Nobody is saying that we need to provide expensive surgeries for terminal patients, just that we shouldn't off them to save money. Hospices aren't that ****ing expensive.

    So according to you, we should put them down then to save cash, right? We give away trillions to banks, wars, and foreign aid, yet when it comes time for grandma to need some hospice care, **** 'em right?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  5. #335
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    1. That an investigation into how the LCP is being administered has been launched.

    2. That it is alleged that some patients are being put on the LCP without them or their families being told.

    3. That it is alleged that hospitals are being rewarded for putting patients on the LCP.

    4. That the Health Minister thinks that despite some problems the LCP is a tremendous advance in patient care, or words to that effect.
    The story would be unremarkable indeed if those four headings were presentled so drily. Perhaps it needs more fevered imagination regarding "Death Panels". The NHS does not confirm the slanted presentation in the "story"
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  6. #336
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    So we should put them down then to save cash, right? We give away billions to banks, wars, and foreign aid, yet when it comes time for grandma to need some hospice care, **** 'em right?
    Hospice care is not life saving treatment. I fully support allowing someone to die in a peaceful, dignified manner. Always have.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    Hospice care is not life saving treatment. I fully support allowing someone to die in a peaceful, dignified manner. Always have.
    That's not what's happening here. Nobody is suggesting that terminal patients need to be given expensive surgeries for nought, just that they shouldn't be euthanized against their will to save money. In the OP people are being involuntarily euthanized to save money, is that really what you want?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  8. #338
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    That's not what's happening here. Nobody is suggesting that terminal patients need to be given expensive surgeries for nought, just that they shouldn't be euthanized against their will to save money. In the OP people are being involuntarily euthanized to save money, is that really what you want?
    There is a world of difference between injecting someone or smothering them with a pillow and withdrawing life prolonging treatment.

  9. #339
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    That's not what's happening here. Nobody is suggesting that terminal patients need to be given expensive surgeries for nought, just that they shouldn't be euthanized against their will to save money. In the OP people are being involuntarily euthanized to save money, is that really what you want?
    That's not what is happening here.
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  10. #340
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The story would be unremarkable indeed if those four headings were presentled so drily. Perhaps it needs more fevered imagination regarding "Death Panels". The NHS does not confirm the slanted presentation in the "story"
    The slant is immaterial. The facts are what is important.

    If find the allegation that people are being put on this pathway without informed consent to be alarming indeed.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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