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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #321
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    My great uncle was at death's door and not expected to live 3 months - almost put into hospice - due to cancer. He's now going on over a year and he's looking much stronger, healthier and better then he has in a long time.
    This is another reason why I oppose this. Human life should be given more value than money. I wonder if rich people under this program get the same treatment...

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    This is another reason why I oppose this. Human life should be given more value than money. I wonder if rich people under this program get the same treatment...
    Rich people probably have more options. If their insurance company won't pay for a particular treatment, they can decide to spend their own money for it. Most of the rest of us don't have that option. Of course, most treatments that insurance companies won't pay for are experimental at the very best. Some are downright quackery. Some treatments/tests (for cancer, in particular) fall between the cracks. A particular breast-cancer tumor test comes to mind. This test hasn't been sufficiently proven yet, although it's available. Many insurance companies won't pay for the test -- which costs about $5,200. Rich people? No problem, let's do it. Many of the rest of us couldn't afford it.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Rich people probably have more options. If their insurance company won't pay for a particular treatment, they can decide to spend their own money for it. Most of the rest of us don't have that option. Of course, most treatments that insurance companies won't pay for are experimental at the very best. Some are downright quackery. Some treatments/tests (for cancer, in particular) fall between the cracks. A particular breast-cancer tumor test comes to mind. This test hasn't been sufficiently proven yet, although it's available. Many insurance companies won't pay for the test -- which costs about $5,200. Rich people? No problem, let's do it. Many of the rest of us couldn't afford it.
    I hold no hope for these people in charge. The people in charge of making these decisions on our healthcare are typically rich, and like it or not they may not have our best interests at heart. I just realize that no matter the system the guys without money get screwed, and the best thing to do is be frugal, mind your health, and save up as much money as possible. It's not fair how the medicine you need is expensive enough to give you a heart-attack: that's irony at its finest. What a buncha shmucks!

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Rich people probably have more options. If their insurance company won't pay for a particular treatment, they can decide to spend their own money for it. Most of the rest of us don't have that option. Of course, most treatments that insurance companies won't pay for are experimental at the very best. Some are downright quackery. Some treatments/tests (for cancer, in particular) fall between the cracks. A particular breast-cancer tumor test comes to mind. This test hasn't been sufficiently proven yet, although it's available. Many insurance companies won't pay for the test -- which costs about $5,200. Rich people? No problem, let's do it. Many of the rest of us couldn't afford it.
    A friend of mine had hepetitus. He is 60 and was dieing. A miracle drug came out at the 11th hour that saved his life. He went into debt for the rest of his life to pay for it; the alternative was much grimmer.

    Being 60 y/o, I have my doubts whether the government would have spent the money to save his life, nor should they have the authority to make that decision, either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    So what is it that you think it "confirms"?
    1. That an investigation into how the LCP is being administered has been launched.

    2. That it is alleged that some patients are being put on the LCP without them or their families being told.

    3. That it is alleged that hospitals are being rewarded for putting patients on the LCP.

    4. That the Health Minister thinks that despite some problems the LCP is a tremendous advance in patient care, or words to that effect.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Nor should they have the authority to make that decision, either way.
    They don't have that right. They do have the right on whether or not to pay for it.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    1. That an investigation into how the LCP is being administered has been launched.

    2. That it is alleged that some patients are being put on the LCP without them or their families being told.

    3. That it is alleged that hospitals are being rewarded for putting patients on the LCP.

    4. That the Health Minister thinks that despite some problems the LCP is a tremendous advance in patient care, or words to that effect.
    Take away all the pejorative language in the OP, and you've got Hospice Care. We've had that path in the United States for quite some time.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Take away all the pejorative language in the OP, and you've got Hospice Care. We've had that path in the United States for quite some time.
    But doesn't hospice care in America require consent? I'm confused.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    But doesn't hospice care in America require consent? I'm confused.
    Yes, it does. This article claims that some people were put on that path w/o their knowledge or consent.** Therein lies the rub. The program is not designed to do that.

    **The patient may have been lucid enough to give the doctor permission early on without the family knowing...one person in the family may take exception to the rest of the family's decision if the patient wasn't lucid. There could be many reasons for this. This article takes the worst possible editorial position: they allowed the patient to die without his/his family's consent.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #330
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    There is no such thing as a citizen worth more than another citizen. What you propose is bigotry of an even worse type than by race. You would make a great Communist dictator though.
    Nonsense. I am proposing a sensible approach to healthcare and budgeting rather than an emotion driven diatribe about human value.



    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Thanx for the completely false accusation because I never said anything like that.
    Sure you did. Keeping terminally ill people alive only to suffer equates to just what I said.





    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Your own attitude is insulting you? You said that living people were costing us money that we should just kill them and save money. Why not start with yourself first since technically we are all dying and expensive to keep alive you would be doing everyone a great service by saving us money.
    Nope. It's your emotive approach to this argument that led you to insult me. And now you resort to hyperbole by comparing the everyday costs of living for a healthy person to the expensive and pointless costs of maintaining life for the dying.






    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Well you said that point blankly it cost 10k a day for everyone now you are back pedaling.
    No, I am not back pedaling at all, but you are nitpicking. It is true that I did not use the word "average," though. Good for you.



    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Is that because you are trying to promote your ideology here and you wouldnt want to talk about how thats really what the subject is about in this thread? Seriously take a good look at all of those posts here you can easily pick which ideology each poster is trying to promote. Most everyone here is saying that their ideology will fix healthcare. So this really is not a debate about healthcare but a war between ideologies.
    If you want to start a separate thread about how to reform healthcare, please feel free to do so. I will gladly debate you on that topic there.

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