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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #311
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The Daily Telegraph is not part of Rupert Murdoch's empire. It is owned by the Barclay brothers.. not related to the bank.

    The Daily Telegraph is however a conservative leaning paper which means it and its readers are pretty much against the NHS which explains its stories and attitude towards the NHS.
    Would you believe it if the NHS itself confirmed the story?

    What is the Liverpool Care Pathway? - Health News - NHS Choices

    Facts are facts whether Murdoch or some liberal rag tells them. What a cheap, lazy cop out to dismiss a story just because it appears in a paper with an editorial slant you don't like.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  2. #312
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    That was only an example. You completely missed the point I was making. Let me try again: If there is not funding for expensive medical care for terminally ill people, should we take it from other sources (namely from those who can contribute something back to society at a later point)?
    There is no such thing as a citizen worth more than another citizen. What you propose is bigotry of an even worse type than by race. You would make a great Communist dictator though.



    Give them some morphine and let them die peacefully. You're the one you wants to prolong their suffering- not me.
    Thanx for the completely false accusation because I never said anything like that.





    What was the point of this hateful insult?
    Your own attitude is insulting you? You said that living people were costing us money that we should just kill them and save money. Why not start with yourself first since technically we are all dying and expensive to keep alive you would be doing everyone a great service by saving us money.






    Of course the cost varies from patient to patient. That was an average cost.
    Well you said that point blankly it cost 10k a day for everyone now you are back pedaling.



    This is a topic for another thread.
    Is that because you are trying to promote your ideology here and you wouldnt want to talk about how thats really what the subject is about in this thread? Seriously take a good look at all of those posts here you can easily pick which ideology each poster is trying to promote. Most everyone here is saying that their ideology will fix healthcare. So this really is not a debate about healthcare but a war between ideologies.

  3. #313
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Would you believe it if the NHS itself confirmed the story?

    What is the Liverpool Care Pathway? - Health News - NHS Choices

    Facts are facts whether Murdoch or some liberal rag tells them. What a cheap, lazy cop out to dismiss a story just because it appears in a paper with an editorial slant you don't like.
    So what is it that you think it "confirms"?


    ps. (this is merely a rehash of a story both papers put out (and were slated for) last June.)
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  4. #314
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm a breast and bladder cancer survivor, Freedom. I would hardly assert no treatment for anyone with cancer. I cried like a little baby when I took my chemotherapy treatments three years ago...like a little kid...knowing I was willingly injecting poison into my body "for its own good." It was quite traumatic.
    I think that mostly we are just talking past each other. Which is why I was pointing that out. I dont think that you got across what you were trying to say and what did come out wasnt at all what you wanted. Lol which is what I seem to do most of the time here.

    I agree that cancer treatment is traumatic though I feel like that word is not strong enough. IMHO the whole affair for me was ****ed up. I dont believe that I am cured, Im just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  5. #315
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I think that mostly we are just talking past each other. Which is why I was pointing that out. I dont think that you got across what you were trying to say and what did come out wasnt at all what you wanted. Lol which is what I seem to do most of the time here.

    I agree that cancer treatment is traumatic though I feel like that word is not strong enough. IMHO the whole affair for me was ****ed up. I dont believe that I am cured, Im just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
    Same here. Ha! Not a day goes by that another new ache or pain doesn't remind me. My mom is a 30-year survivor. That's encouraging for both of us -- and all who've been diagnosed with this disease. Cheers!
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Would you believe it if the NHS itself confirmed the story?

    What is the Liverpool Care Pathway? - Health News - NHS Choices

    Facts are facts whether Murdoch or some liberal rag tells them. What a cheap, lazy cop out to dismiss a story just because it appears in a paper with an editorial slant you don't like.
    Dont get me wrong, I dont actually doubt the few actual facts that are on the table. Do doctors not tell relatives and family the whole story? Yes. Do doctors not do everything to save someone that is going to die anyways.. of course that is only humane. Do doctors actually help death along... officially nope, unofficially of course.

    What I question is first the motivation of the publications.. which are actually well known, and secondly the "slant" and "twisting" of the facts in said publications. British newspapers are notorious in their ability to blow things out of proportions or slant things 180 degrees to meet a set political view or editorial stance.

    In other words.. if the newspaper is against something, then all stories will be often slanted towards that regardless of the facts. So you could easily have two newspapers with the same story coming to totally different conclusions.. happens often.

    That is why I am saying.. Daily Mail pft.. and The Telegraph .. Pft. Both have a history of hatred towards the NHS and have a history of taking isolated problems and blowing them up into a major country wide issue and demanding the heads of the NHS and pressing for privatization.

    You have to remember that the Daily Mail is basically fascist. It is anti-European, xenophobic to borderline racist and supported Adolf Hitler and his movement in the Uk back in the day. To me it is amazing the newspaper was not shut down during WW2 after supporting the fascist movement.. but hey.

    As for the Telegraph. Again very conservative leaning and that is because of its two owners.. billionaire twins who are recluses and well known supporters of the Tory party. Like it or not, the Tory party has a secret wish to make the UK health system into the American system, but knows that it cant be open about it, so it loves to find via its "friendly newspapers" issues in the NHS that can result in the changes that the Tory party wants.. more privatization. But they know that they cant be too open about it... it almost cost Maggie Thatcher.. well actually it pretty much did.. back in the day, and if they went out openly and said they wanted to get rid of the NHS and privatize it, then the Tories would become a very small party. Even in this government they went out openly and said "no cuts to care in the NHS" when in fact there has been massive cuts and it could very well cost them the next election if Labour runs on it.

    So basically.. such stories in British newspapers have to be taken into context of the political stance of the newspaper and its history.
    PeteEU

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Would you believe it if the NHS itself confirmed the story?

    What is the Liverpool Care Pathway? - Health News - NHS Choices

    Facts are facts whether Murdoch or some liberal rag tells them. What a cheap, lazy cop out to dismiss a story just because it appears in a paper with an editorial slant you don't like.
    Did you read the article you posted? It doesn't support the claims of The Daily Telegraph or The Daily Mail.

    "Anonymous doctors?" That seems to be a favorite tact by conservative rags. A fact would require the sources could be verified.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    If this is true, it's a step in the right direction for valuing your pocketbook, but a step in the wrong direction for valuing human life.

  9. #319
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    If this is true, it's a step in the right direction for valuing your pocketbook, but a step in the wrong direction for valuing human life.
    Stay away from light blue avatars, Wake.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You ARE aware that there are cases when doctors tell a patient that he/she cannot survive, and they beat the odds and DO survive. A doctor's prognosis is NOT always correct and all-knowing, but a guesstimate a LOT of the times.
    My great uncle was at death's door and not expected to live 3 months - almost put into hospice - due to cancer. He's now going on over a year and he's looking much stronger, healthier and better then he has in a long time.

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