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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #301
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    By FreedomFromAll: Not letting people suffer is completely logical on all levels.
    Quoted for truth and for showing sympathy for other still-living human beings.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Nobody is going to turn away cancer patients who want what they believe is curative treatment for their terminal disease. That does not mean that society has to foot that bill. It's horrible medicine. Terrible treatment of patients. And society cannot afford it.



    I'm all for palliative medicine. You notice who isn't in the mix of experts, do you not? The patient and his family.

    [/LIST]

    I don't think anyone is arguing against palliative care here.
    You ARE aware that there are cases when doctors tell a patient that he/she cannot survive, and they beat the odds and DO survive. A doctor's prognosis is NOT always correct and all-knowing, but a guesstimate a LOT of the times.

    I don't mind paying for other people's healthcare who can't afford it themselves. THAT is a good use of money IMO.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    You are generalizing a subject that can only be addressed on a case by case level.

    Money spent on terminally ill people does not come from money earmarked for education, that is not how it works.
    That was only an example. You completely missed the point I was making. Let me try again: If there is not funding for expensive medical care for terminally ill people, should we take it from other sources (namely from those who can contribute something back to society at a later point)?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The money simple does not exist for the other subject, what you said makes no sense, since money must be properly appropriated etc, there is a process earmarks money for certain things and you cannot legally use it for anything else.



    Not letting people suffer is completely logical on all levels.
    Give them some morphine and let them die peacefully. You're the one you wants to prolong their suffering- not me.



    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Ok good then perhaps you could save us all a little money and kill yourself now?
    What was the point of this hateful insult?




    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post

    The mistake that you are making is that it can cost up to $10,000 a day to stay in a SCU/ECU. That does not mean that it costs that much for everyone all the time.
    Of course the cost varies from patient to patient. That was an average cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Medicare is a government ran insurance company. Medicare makes as much sense as private insurance companies. Which is none. People seem to like to blame the hospitals the doctors and even the patients for whats wrong with medical care in the US but most of the (not always though) they ignore insurance companies. The problem is that the system of using insurance companies in healthcare is really what is called privatized socialism. The Socialistic principles are the same and they do not work in the private sector any better than they work in the public sector. Of course those promoting socialism will tout countries with socialized medical care as they are medical utopias but they lack in many aspects just like privately owned insurance companies do. The only real difference is that in the socialized public version generally more people get ****ty coverage and they cut out the profits of private insurance companies. It is a half ass solution that really is only partially better than the current system in the US. There is a huge amount of room for improvement in those nation with socialized medical care.

    If you ask me what I think the solution is, I will tell you that private insurance and government paid medical care both suck. If I had the solution I would make my own thread or start a movement to get it going. But I am only one individual and there are many minds that could figure this out if they were not stagnant minds locked in the battle over two screwed up systems. Because to those people it isnt really about improving the healthcare system its about promoting their ideologies. The healthcare issue is yet just another tool of propaganda for them.
    This is a topic for another thread.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    You ARE aware that there are cases when doctors tell a patient that he/she cannot survive, and they beat the odds and DO survive. A doctor's prognosis is NOT always correct and all-knowing, but a guesstimate a LOT of the times.

    I don't mind paying for other people's healthcare who can't afford it themselves. THAT is a good use of money IMO.
    Then write a check. Let's see how far that money goes. $50 billion a year and counting...

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    Then write a check. Let's see how far that money goes. $50 billion a year and counting...
    I already do. I donate to the Cancer Fund every year.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't mind paying for other people's healthcare who can't afford it themselves. THAT is a good use of money IMO.
    You will mind when your Medicare tax goes from its current 1.45% to 5%.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You will mind when your Medicare tax goes from its current 1.45% to 5%.
    There would be no need to do that if our government knew how to manage money.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Nobody is going to turn away cancer patients who want what they believe is curative treatment for their terminal disease. That does not mean that society has to foot that bill. It's horrible medicine. Terrible treatment of patients. And society cannot afford it.

    ......
    Cancer does not always equate a death sentence. Some people go into remission and it never comes back. Hell I had thyroid cancer myself yet I am still alive. Its been 12 years since they removed my thyroid and a few months ago they confirmed that I have no thyroid cells in my body (the only that I would is if I had a cancerous tumor, **** I dont even like talking about that...) But not all cancer is the same. I was lucky in the sense that mine was operable. The doctors that I talked to all agreed that if the tumor had made it past the stage it was in I would be dead years ago now. Because I had the worst possible type of thyroid cancer that one could have. And the only that it was caught in time was a freak accident of going to the right doctor that had a clue. I had a infected saliva gland an extremely rare case and the doctor just happened to see the possible tumor in my thyroid at the edge of the picture. Hooray for chance!

    But I agree with you that Radiation and chemo are not good ways of doing anything and to say that those so called treatments (IMHO they are not treatments they are what they were designed as a method to kill tissue indiscriminately, they are poison) are lame is an understatement of mega proportions.


    You should read what you just wrote though you made it sound like you are asserting no treatment for anyone with cancer.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    We're discussing a British NHS clinical management of a terminal patient's final hours. (at least that's whats at the root of these American paranoid fantasies) How does that overlap with the actions or not of the US government?
    I'm seeing the same things that are happening there are happening here.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    You should read what you just wrote though you made it sound like you are asserting no treatment for anyone with cancer.
    I'm a breast and bladder cancer survivor, Freedom. I would hardly assert no treatment for anyone with cancer. I cried like a little baby when I took my chemotherapy treatments three years ago...like a little kid...knowing I was willingly injecting poison into my body "for its own good." It was quite traumatic.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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