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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #281
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    If the government is paying the bill, why isn't it their decision to make? You can't have someone else pay your bills and still expect to retain full authority over every decision about your life. Don't like it? Don't have socialized medicine.
    Where does the government get the money to "pay the bill"?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Lie by omission. I won't disagree with this, but I will state that trying to enforce that would kill the media. People, as a general rule, have very short attention spans. They don't want to have to read something that gets 9 inches of text in the paper, 4 inches of which is back ground info. Typically.

    Editing down is important, and often, it's the context, and not the actual "news" itself, that gets axed. Editors assume, usually rightly so, that a person is willing to read, say, 150 words on a story. The one present, because of context, has 230 words. What would you rather they cut, the piece of news itself, or the back ground story that provides context?
    If you are merely reporting, its not as much a lie. If you are making a political statement however, it is a lie.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Where does the government get the money to "pay the bill"?
    The rich. Should the rich be making your healthcare decisions?

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    PeteEU's Avatar
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    To some extent you can harp about the LEAN a particular piece of news takes. Yes, you can project something in a good or bad light.

    Are you, however, suggesting there are outright lies in the OP? Because last I checked, a lie, once printed, is libel, and that's illegal. At least, it is in the US.
    LOL if saying lie's was illegal in the US, then Fox News would constantly be in court.

    And libel laws in the UK are far far more strict... but it is pretty much only the private person who uses those laws.. and since the NHS is not exactly private, then they cant or wont sue the newspaper regardless of the facts being a lie.

    Also a fact can easily be formed into something it is not.. which is most likely what they are doing. They do it constantly when it comes to the EU and Europe.
    PeteEU

  5. #285
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by cado20 View Post
    Why? Because the government has never been so large it has so much power, what i fear is a total take over by the government, we are losing our freedom for our security.
    We're discussing a British NHS clinical management of a terminal patient's final hours. (at least that's whats at the root of these American paranoid fantasies) How does that overlap with the actions or not of the US government?
    Don't work out, work in.

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  6. #286
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The reality is that not everything is about money. And there is a stark difference between those that cannot and will not support themselves and a those who at the moment are unable to pay for life saving medical care.
    No. Not life saving, life prolonging. Agony prolonging. It's utterly pointless. Are we going to take money from education and put it towards the care of terminally ill people? It's got to come from somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    You mentioned reality, as if there is no way to intervene in reality. Myself I aim higher I dont give in so easily that I would accept that today in modern times that we should let people die at of need of money to pay for medical care. And fortunately your way of thinking is in the minority. BTW it is only people like you that are talking about the lazy idiots the rest of us have observed that compassion can be met with sacrifices. Your problem is that all you are concerned about is deadbeats but I am not even talking about deadbeats, I am talking about the reality that some people are just not available to pay huge amounts of money for a service that would save their life. We are actually talking about people that worked very hard all their lives or children that could not chose their parents nor their families.
    That wouldn't surprise me. People don't use logic, they use emotions. And when emotions dictate policy, we end up on a financial cliff.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But then compassion is the last thing on your mind when it comes to your bank account isnt Evenstar?
    I don't have enough money to be compassionate.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    These people paid into medicaid for their entire working lives, and when it comes time to pay for a single life support machine and a cot, medicaid tells them to **** off. Tell me again how not getting something you paid for makes you a deadbeat.
    Almost no one who has paid into social security, medicaid, or medicare will pay enough into these systems to cover their costs. Fact. Of course exceptions exist, but this remains fact for a majority of people. In fact, most people are receiving benefits they never paid for. This isn't about compassion, it's about math. Either the money is there, or it's not. And I'm sorry to inform you- it is not. The money to pay for terminally ill people to eke out another several miserable months on the tax payer's dime simply doesn't exist. According to a source cited in this thread a few pages back, it costs $10,000 a day to maintain someone in the intensive care unit. $50 billion a year to maintain terminally ill patients, and up 30% of that cost has no meaningful impact. If people want to think with their emotions, fine, but at some point they need to come back down here to reality and understand that everything has a cost.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    If someone wants to fight for their life, then that is NOBODY else's business. It is up to that person and their family to decide on whether or not they want to go through the "agony" and not anyone else's, especially the government. If they are going to refuse to pay for medical care, then they should NOT be getting their grubby hands into the medical business.

    It's a personal decision and should be made solely by the individual without pressure from outside sources over "money." That is just sick!

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It is exceedingly difficult for family to make that decision. Most families? They can't do it. Actually? Loving pet owners are sometimes kinder to their dogs than they are to their mothers.
    My dog bit me, but only once, when I was cleaning a cut on his foot. My mother treated me bad for much of my teen years, til I moved out, then she just forgot about me....until she discovered I had money. Didn't do her any good, though.
    So, yeah, I treated my dog better...
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    If someone wants to fight for their life, then that is NOBODY else's business. It is up to that person and their family to decide on whether or not they want to go through the "agony" and not anyone else's, especially the government. If they are going to refuse to pay for medical care, then they should NOT be getting their grubby hands into the medical business.

    It's a personal decision and should be made solely by the individual without pressure from outside sources over "money." That is just sick!
    ok. Who should pay for it? The money has to come from somewhere.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenstar View Post
    ok. Who should pay for it? The money has to come from somewhere.
    The same way any OTHER medical care is paid for. Whether one self-pays or has insurance.

    How can people not realize how dangerous it is for the government to put limitations on our healthcare choices? Unreal!

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