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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #251
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I think it does matter whether it's true or not, in fact that is the point that seems to escape you because you want to believe so badly that article is true, when it doesnt appear that is.
    It doesn't matter what the UK is doing, I couldn't possibly care less. They've got all kinds of ****ed up **** going on over there. What we're talking about is the prospect of this occuring in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Nor do I believe Maggie took the article at face value. What I think she said and I'm ad libing, was that keeping the terminally ill alive with false hope, enormous suffering, useless and painful surguries, or to die an undignified death with tubes coming out every oriface, not to mention the financial burden that destroys entire families....was more cruel and inhumane than letting a person die a natural and peaceful death with hospice care and/or in the comfort of their own home surrounded by their family.
    If the family or the person decides it's time, then it's time. For some doctor to off someone against their will to save society money is ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It's difficult to tell if you have an biased agenda or just blind to fact and reason by letting your emotions get the best of you.

    Btw, it costs taxpayers $55 billion a year to keep the terminally ill alive. Personally, I think that money would be better spent helping to keep those that are not terminally ill, alive and healthy to go on and live productive lives.....
    These people are taxpayers. They paid into medicaid their entire working lives, and now that the government has mismanaged their funds, and lobbies have made our medical system unbelievably expensive, our government is just going to tell these people to **** off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    "Every medical study ever conducted has concluded that 100 percent of all Americans will eventually die." I hope that isn't news to you, RabidAlpaca.
    That's the logic of psychopaths. "It doesn't bother me if we kill that guy off, we're all going to die eventually, right?" Of course everyone is going to die, that doesn't mean we should start killing people to save money.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  2. #252
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I never said to "treat" a dying man, I said to not off them to save cash if he doesn't want to be offed. I'm not suggesting we start forking out huge expensive surgeries for someone who's more than likely going to die. A breathing machine, some medication, and a cot are not that expensive.
    Damn, it's no wonder that you and I can't see eye to eye on this issue. If you consider "a breathing machine, some medication, and a cot" living, then you haven't seen much in the way of critically ill patients. Jesus H. Christ.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  3. #253
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Damn, it's no wonder that you and I can't see eye to eye on this issue. If you consider "a breathing machine, some medication, and a cot" living, then you haven't seen much in the way of critically ill patients. Jesus H. Christ.
    It doesn't matter what it is. We'd be offing people who don't want to die to save money. Plain and simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  4. #254
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    That is EXACTLY what you have been saying from the beginning. You think people should be euthanized against their will because it's more "humane" and cost effective.
    It is inhumane not to tell people that they are dying when their health has deteriorated to the point of no return. I am watching that happen with a friend as we speak. She has been taking chemotherapy treatments for the last eight months. If she now weighs (at 5'8") 90 pounds I would be surprised. She is on oxygen, faithfully going to her chemotherapy treatments every two weeks. Have the doctors leveled with them? No, they haven't. The closest they've come is to say, "Well, she'll be on chemotherapy the rest of her life." She has incurable terminal cancer. Her morphine is being increased weekly...her quality of life has deteriorated to non-existent...she is on oxygen at home...and still the doctors aggressively "treat" her terminal disease. I think this is inhumane. If you don't, then I'd venture to say that you haven't experienced that scenario up close and personal.

    Doctors should be encouraged to, at some point, tell their patients the truth. And to make their inevitable journey as comfortable as possible. For the most part, doctors aren't doing that. Shameful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Nor do I believe Maggie took the article at face value. What I think she said and I'm ad libing, was that keeping the terminally ill alive with false hope, enormous suffering, useless and painful surguries, or to die an undignified death with tubes coming out every oriface, not to mention the financial burden that destroys entire families....was more cruel and inhumane than letting a person die a natural and peaceful death with hospice care and/or in the comfort of their own home surrounded by their family.

    Btw, it costs taxpayers $55 billion a year to keep the terminally ill alive. Personally, I think that money would be better spent helping to keep those that are not terminally ill, alive and healthy to go on and live productive lives.....

    Taxpayer Cost of Keeping the Terminally Ill Alive

    "Every medical study ever conducted has concluded that 100 percent of all Americans will eventually die." I hope that isn't news to you, RabidAlpaca.
    Thank you for this.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #255
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Last time I checked, we're ALL terminal. One sec, let me double check, to make sure...



    Yep. We're ALL going to die, someday. By that measure, Drs. should inject us all with poisons now, so as to save society money, and ourselves heartache.




    That we would ALLOW people to die, or ASSIST them to die, is one thing.

    Doing so without either their knowledge, OR their consent, is murder, plain and simple. There are no gray areas on this, no two ways about. If my actions cause a person to die as a direct result, and they happened without that person's knowledge or express consent, it is, and always will be, murder. This is actually one of the most cut and dry topics I've posted in in a while. If a person who has been paying into a healthcare system ALL THEIR LIVES, wants to keep on keeping on, despite an apparent hopeless, inevitable outcome, that is their DECISION TO DO SO. They EARNED IT. You have a problem with this bankrupting said healthcare system, I would SUGGEST we look at changing the SYSTEM, NOT by murdering all of the more expensive patients of that system. Got me?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  6. #256
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It is inhumane not to tell people that they are dying when their health has deteriorated to the point of no return. I am watching that happen with a friend as we speak. She has been taking chemotherapy treatments for the last eight months. If she now weighs (at 5'8") 90 pounds I would be surprised. She is on oxygen, faithfully going to her chemotherapy treatments every two weeks. Have the doctors leveled with them? No, they haven't. The closest they've come is to say, "Well, she'll be on chemotherapy the rest of her life." She has incurable terminal cancer. Her morphine is being increased weekly...her quality of life has deteriorated to non-existent...she is on oxygen at home...and still the doctors aggressively "treat" her terminal disease. I think this is inhumane. If you don't, then I'd venture to say that you haven't experienced that scenario up close and personal.

    Doctors should be encouraged to, at some point, tell their patients the truth. And to make their inevitable journey as comfortable as possible. For the most part, doctors aren't doing that. Shameful.
    If your friend wants to keep living, that's her and her family's decision. The doctor is clearly wrong here, he should level with his patient. Why you would think it's not ok to lie or mislead the patient, but think that it's ok for a doctor to decide to kill a patient without telling them or the family is absolutely beyond me.

    If someone wants to continue to live through suffering, that is their decision, not yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  7. #257
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    That we would ALLOW people to die, or ASSIST them to die, is one thing.

    Doing so without either their knowledge, OR their consent, is murder, plain and simple. There are no gray areas on this, no two ways about. If my actions cause a person to die as a direct result, and they happened without that person's knowledge or express consent, it is, and always will be, murder. This is actually one of the most cut and dry topics I've posted in in a while. If a person who has been paying into a healthcare system ALL THEIR LIVES, wants to keep on keeping on, despite an apparent hopeless, inevitable outcome, that is their DECISION TO DO SO. They EARNED IT. You have a problem with this bankrupting said healthcare system, I would SUGGEST we look at changing the SYSTEM, NOT by murdering all of the more expensive patients of that system. Got me?
    Thank God that's not the way it works.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  8. #258
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    This brings to mind a conservative hot key phrase....DEATH PANELS. Anyone remember that little number?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  9. #259
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    If your friend wants to keep living, that's her and her family's decision. The doctor is clearly wrong here, he should level with his patient. Why you would think it's not ok to lie or mislead the patient, but think that it's ok for a doctor to decide to kill a patient without telling them or the family is absolutely beyond me.

    If someone wants to continue to live through suffering, that is their decision, not yours.
    Please quote where I say that it's OK for a doctor to decide to kill a patient.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #260
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    This brings to mind a conservative hot key phrase....DEATH PANELS. Anyone remember that little number?
    Yeah, I remember. Lies, Lies and more Lies. That wasn't a conservative hot-key phrase -- that was bull****.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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