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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Please outline how...
    Same way. There is nothing different. Pay yourself, use other insurance, challenge the evidence. Nothing is different.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    OMG, are you for real? have you even read the OP? It clearly does state that.
    Oh were talking about the OP. I thought we were talking about my link because that is what you quoted.

    But yes the link does say that.


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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Same way. There is nothing different. Pay yourself, use other insurance, challenge the evidence. Nothing is different.
    The ACA mandates that in certain respects all insurance must meet uniform guidelines no?
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    We should draw the line in a humane way. Telling people to **** off because they have no money is not humane it is ****ing evil and the pinnacle of assholeness. This is not the dark ages or back in the caveman days. Kindness is not measured by money. If we can put a man on the moon we can save a dying human being or at least make their death humane. Shoving terminal people out hospital doors just because their family have no money divides the monsters from humans.


    Do you have kids? A man shoots up a school killing and injuring 6 and 7 year olds, what you are asserting is that the surviving children that did have enough money should have been left to die. What you are asserting is that money is more important than human life. Sounds a bit greedy and self centered. Only a monster would knowing kill a child because the kids family was poor. By law an parent or whoever is responsible for a child can be convicted of murder for neglect of a childs welfare that leads to death. Which is exactly what you are promoting.
    Sorry, but that is not reality. Reality is that healthcare is a business and people are in it for money. Everything is about money. So yes, one must consider dollars and cents when deciding what care is administered to those who cannot or will not support themselves. Do you want to pay my bills?

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The ACA mandates that in certain respects all insurance must meet uniform guidelines no?
    Minimal. They can do more.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Oh were talking about the OP. I thought we were talking about my link because that is what you quoted.

    But yes the link does say that.
    They both say the same things when quoting the director of the NHS program, however the rub is what was found out by independent studies...And yes, they do highlight where patients themselves were never consulted about the decision of the doctors who may be tied to financial incentives for their decision.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Minimal. They can do more.
    But none the less. There are provisions where there is no escape from the mandates that all insurance must cover, right?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    But none the less. There are provisions where there is no escape from the mandates that all insurance must cover, right?
    Important difference. In works against your argument. It's a death panel because it makes them provide more?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Important difference. In works against your argument. It's a death panel because it makes them provide more?

    I know that is what it has been sold as,

    Beginning in 2013, the Chief Actuary of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services will determine in particular years the projected per capita growth rate for Medicare for a multi-year period ending in the second year thereafter (the "implementation year"). If the projection exceeds a target growth rate, IPAB must develop a proposal to reduce Medicare spending in the implementation year by a specified amount. If it is required to develop a proposal, the Board must submit that proposal in January of the year before the implementation year; thus, the first proposal could be submitted in January 2014 to take effect in 2015. If the Board fails to submit a proposal that the Chief Actuary certifies will achieve the savings target, the Secretary of Health and Human Services must submit a proposal that will achieve that amount of savings. The Secretary must then implement the proposal unless Congress enacts resolutions made to override the Board's (or the Secretary's) decisions under a fast-track procedure that the law sets forth.[1]

    Independent Payment Advisory Board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    And this

    President Obama’s ACA established the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB), a 15-member panel of unelected federal employees; its members to be appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. The law does not require the IPAB to be bi-partisan in structure, as is required for almost all other independent agencies. Its mission is specific – to restrict payments to doctors and hospitals in order to achieve a reduction in Medicare spending beneath a specified cap.

    The reality is that the IPAB represents an unprecedented shift of power from individual Americans and their families to a centralized authority, a controlling Board of political appointees that is virtually unaccountable, and destined to become President Obama’s version of the NICE rationing board in Britain’s socialized medical system, the National Health Service.

    But wait – President Obama and the ACA supporters point to specific language in the ACA law that explicitly prohibits “rationing.” Beyond the obvious – the absence of any definition of rationing in the law – is that this is implausible deniability, since all evidence points to the de facto rationing that will clearly result from IPAB’s dramatic payment cuts to doctors and hospitals.

    We know that doctors cite the money-losing reimbursement rates for government insurance as the Number One reason for refusing new Medicaid and Medicare patients. And we know, even before the ACA payment cuts of 31 percent in 2013, more than 20 percent of primary care doctors already were not accepting any new Medicare patients (five times the rate of doctors who refuse private insurance), and about 40 percent of primary care doctors and 20 percent of specialists already refused most new Medicare patients. By 2019, Medicare cuts under the Obama law will be so severe that payments will become even lower than Medicaid, a system by which almost one half of doctors already refuse to accept new patients.

    IPAB: President Obama's NICE Way To Ration Care To Seniors - Forbes
    So, to your point that it isn't explicitly a "death panel" as laid out by language, but the result will be the same.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    You would rather they had a blank check? (NICE is about cost-effectiveness, not rationing.)
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