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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #171
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Very funny the bit about Tommy My wife would be the same way....heh, heh...But in the part that I bolded is exactly what seems to be going on here. According to the article...

    Sounds to me that is exactly what is happening here...Doc's are making that decision on their own, without so much as telling the patient or designee what is going on, all because an incentive to do so is in place.
    Well, I won't argue the point except to say that there is a huge difference between being conscious and being lucid. Frankly, I think doctors should convene family meetings . . . it's usually the other way around. Families simply must understand that their responsibility is to do what's right for their loved one. And very often, keeping them alive at all costs isn't in their best interests at all.

    Truth be told? Even with clear direction from a HCPOA, most doctors won't withdraw treatment without a family consensus. (Lizzie would be better able to say this with conviction than I . . . but I believe it's true.)
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  2. #172
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Look at the numbers hon. They don't add up. You can't spend your lifetime paying into a program, when your expenditure needs don't come anywhere near that which you have spent, and expect it to be otherwise. It's the same problem we have with SS. The majority of SS recipients receive far more in benefits, than they ever paid in. This is why it doesn't work long term, and that is why government healthcare is doomed for failure from the outset.
    I know I sound like a broken record, but the Germans manage to provide 100% full coverage for every citizen on half the per capita and half the percentage of GDP costs of our system. They don't kill old people here, and they don't turn away the poor. We're doing something wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
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  3. #173
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Nearly 35%, which I find atrocious. But when you look at the federal income breakdown, a smaller portion, even adjusted for the higher percentage, actually goes to medical care. Here you can either use the state system, which stays pretty constant throughout your life (approx 200 euro/month for 2 people for full coverage), or you can take a tax rebate and go with private insurance, which is cheaper when you're young, but increases drastically when you get older. That way those who don't want to pay for others can, and those who want guaranteed coverage for everything can have it.
    Ok, so apples to apples you are about 12% higher than I pay. Germany also has a little more than a quarter the population as the US is....So, there is really no way to compare the two.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Yeah, I'm going to need something besides the trash that the Daily Mail is.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I know I sound like a broken record, but the Germans manage to provide 100% full coverage for every citizen on half the per capita and half the percentage of GDP costs of our system. They don't kill old people here, and they don't turn away the poor. We're doing something wrong.
    Yes, we're doing something wrong. We are supporting the belief that you can get something for nothing, and that you are owed just by birthright. Germany has a bit of a different culture than the US. Americans are collectively very unhealthy, both physically, and psychologically. We have the 2nd highest obesity rate, next to Mexico. We do everything to excess, whether it be eat, drink, smoke, or stress out. We have a huge number of citizens who collect benefits, without ever having paid in.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, I won't argue the point except to say that there is a huge difference between being conscious and being lucid. Frankly, I think doctors should convene family meetings . . . it's usually the other way around. Families simply must understand that their responsibility is to do what's right for their loved one. And very often, keeping them alive at all costs isn't in their best interests at all.

    Truth be told? Even with clear direction from a HCPOA, most doctors won't withdraw treatment without a family consensus. (Lizzie would be better able to say this with conviction than I . . . but I believe it's true.)
    Oh believe me I know...But what we can not allow is some financial incentive motivate docs to make these decisions themselves, without consulting anyone...Once we go down that path we might as well just construct death centers where everyone can report at their average LE age for their mandated lethal injection.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, so apples to apples you are about 12% higher than I pay. Germany also has a little more than a quarter the population as the US is....So, there is really no way to compare the two.
    LOL now that is almost a classic when it comes to excuses. The "we got a bigger population so therefore we cant do as countries who are smaller and better than us.. " excuse.... pathetic. Population size does not matter and never has.
    PeteEU

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL now that is almost a classic when it comes to excuses. The "we got a bigger population so therefore we cant do as countries who are smaller and better than us.. " excuse.... pathetic. Population size does not matter and never has.
    Who said EU countries were better? Hell, they seem to be just killing people for money.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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  9. #179
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No doctor is going to make that decision while I'm lucid. And with a healthcare power of attorney in my cousin's name, she's me. I, unlike others here, don't fear that doctors are going to "off me" just for the helluvit.

    Everyone should have a HCPOA in place. Every single one. It is a gift to your family. It is a gift to yourself. Otherwise intelligent people have trouble facing the necessity of having one. I was my husband's. My husband was mine. I wouldn't burden my Angel Boy Tommy with that as he'd keep me propped up in the living room holding my hand while watching TV 'til I dried up and blew away. That's why I chose my cousin. And I'm blessed that she accepted that awesome responsibility. (We're like sisters.)
    I'm currently working on my living will, and will have it notarized next week. I decided to do this after working in a nursing home and seeing for myself the consequences of not having one. I'd recommend it for everyone, no matter how young.

  10. #180
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    LOL now that is almost a classic when it comes to excuses. The "we got a bigger population so therefore we cant do as countries who are smaller and better than us.. " excuse.... pathetic. Population size does not matter and never has.
    Actually it does Pete.
    Population per square mile/kilometer, with a greater density allowing more efficiency.

    The U.S. has 84 people per square mile, while the UK has 650, Germany has 609, France has 289.
    It's not just population density, it's also, location of where most people live.
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