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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #161
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Its up to you to prove me wrong. Hint: just you saying it doesn't prove anything.
    So, you've seen none of this? Meaning you know nothing at all. Doesn't such lack of knowledge make for a good sheep?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    A source isn't poor just because you don't like their editorial slant. The important facts of the story were correct.
    No, being inaccurate makes it a poor source. Being like the National Equirer or someone running an ad as your last one wavs make them poor sources

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post

    For me, $1 trillion+.
    There is the problem though, most people want no expense spared to pay for their life.
    Yes, and combine that with democracy and you have a tough problem.

    The Brits, on the other hand, seem to be fine with their level of care because everyone gets the same care.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No doctor is going to make that decision while I'm lucid. And with a healthcare power of attorney in my cousin's name, she's me. I, unlike others here, don't fear that doctors are going to "off me" just for the helluvit.

    Everyone should have a HCPOA in place. Every single one. It is a gift to your family. It is a gift to yourself. Otherwise intelligent people have trouble facing the necessity of having one. I was my husband's. My husband was mine. I wouldn't burden my Angel Boy Tommy with that as he'd keep me propped up in the living room holding my hand while watching TV 'til I dried up and blew away. That's why I chose my cousin. And I'm blessed that she accepted that awesome responsibility. (We're like sisters.)
    Who wouldn't want to keep Maggie around forever though?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Look at the numbers hon. They don't add up. You can't spend your lifetime paying into a program, when your expenditure needs don't come anywhere near that which you have spent, and expect it to be otherwise. It's the same problem we have with SS. The majority of SS recipients receive far more in benefits, than they ever paid in. This is why it doesn't work long term, and that is why government healthcare is doomed for failure from the outset.
    I've done the numbers of Tommy Boy before regards Social Security. Figuring what he and his employer paid into Social Security on his behalf, that totals $120,000. He receives $1800/month. He will receive everything back in 5.5 years. His life expectancy is 17 years from today. Nice. What is the life expectancy of a 65 year old man?

    As for Medicare? He paid peanuts into that....most people his age did. And for $99 a month and a $139 supplement, all of his medical expenses will be paid 'til the day he dies. It's simply unsustainable.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Yes, and combine that with democracy and you have a tough problem.

    The Brits, on the other hand, seem to be fine with their level of care because everyone gets the same care.
    Most, yes, some, no.
    The people with the rare/very expensive conditions, may not get all of what they need.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am not trying to be difficult here, I am interested. Just tell me, What are your Taxation rates for income levels at $50K per year?
    Nearly 35%, which I find atrocious. But when you look at the federal income breakdown, a smaller portion, even adjusted for the higher percentage, actually goes to medical care. Here you can either use the state system, which stays pretty constant throughout your life (approx 200 euro/month for 2 people for full coverage), or you can take a tax rebate and go with private insurance, which is cheaper when you're young, but increases drastically when you get older. That way those who don't want to pay for others can, and those who want guaranteed coverage for everything can have it.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    No doctor is going to make that decision while I'm lucid. And with a healthcare power of attorney in my cousin's name, she's me. I, unlike others here, don't fear that doctors are going to "off me" just for the helluvit.

    Everyone should have a HCPOA in place. Every single one. It is a gift to your family. It is a gift to yourself. Otherwise intelligent people have trouble facing the necessity of having one. I was my husband's. My husband was mine. I wouldn't burden my Angel Boy Tommy with that as he'd keep me propped up in the living room holding my hand while watching TV 'til I dried up and blew away. That's why I chose my cousin. And I'm blessed that she accepted that awesome responsibility. (We're like sisters.)
    Very funny the bit about Tommy My wife would be the same way....heh, heh...But in the part that I bolded is exactly what seems to be going on here. According to the article...

    The review follows a public outcry over a string of disturbing cases, highlighted by this paper, in which patients or their families were ignored.

    snip

    It found many patients were not consulted despite being conscious when doctors decided on their care.

    Records from 178 hospitals also show that thousands of people on the pathway are left to die in pain because nurses do not do enough to keep them comfortable while drugs are administered.

    An estimated 130,000 patients are put on the pathway each year.

    Concerns have been raised that clinical judgments are being skewed by incentives for hospitals to use the pathway.

    snip

    Norman Lamb, the care services minister, launched a review in November, saying there had been too many cases of families not being consulted.

    snip

    It found that in 44 per cent of cases when conscious patients were placed on the pathway, there was no record that the decision had been discussed with them.
    For 22 per cent, there was no evidence that comfort and safety had been maintained while medication was administered.
    Sounds to me that is exactly what is happening here...Doc's are making that decision on their own, without so much as telling the patient or designee what is going on, all because an incentive to do so is in place.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    For God's sake, apdst -- one just has to Snopes it: snopes.com: Seniors Beware

    It's crystal.
    The death panel mutated into various things. It started out as ethics panels that would decide on an individual basis whether people would get care. Then it became bureaus that would decide what would be covered but not on an individual basis. Some people even referred to end of life counselling as death panels.

    The ethics panels don't exist in the PPACA. There are without question bureaus that decide what's to be covered just like insurance companies have. And I was never able to make any sense out of the idea that end of life counseling was a death panel, but it was kind of creepy showing up in a national health care law like that. It wasn't really even necessary to put it into law since most hospitals have a policy of providing that to patients when appropriate. (I got hit with that myself one time. Nothing like that to make you come face to face with your own mortality.)

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I've done the numbers of Tommy Boy before regards Social Security. Figuring what he and his employer paid into Social Security on his behalf, that totals $120,000. He receives $1800/month. He will receive everything back in 5.5 years. His life expectancy is 17 years from today. Nice. What is the life expectancy of a 65 year old man?

    As for Medicare? He paid peanuts into that....most people his age did. And for $99 a month and a $139 supplement, all of his medical expenses will be paid 'til the day he dies. It's simply unsustainable.
    That's what I'm talking about. The general public seems to have no idea that they are receiving far more than they paid in, and when most everyone eventually reaches the age that they will be on the receiving end, it is a system that cannot last.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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