Page 13 of 48 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 471

Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #121
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:07 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,552

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You get the gist of it bro.
    But honestly, most of those people receive far more in benefits, than they ever paid in.
    And if they hadn't? What if that was the first time they'd ever used medicaid? Is there a credit limit that if you go over they tell you to **** off? We either need to get rid of medicaid or honor our committments.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  2. #122
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Well, just my two cents...I think it is a quality of life issue. If there is no living will, or end of life instructions of the patients wishes, then I am not sure I want the government making that decision for me. As imperfect as a family member is at these sorts of things, a cold disinterested bureaucrat I am not sure I want giving the thumbs up or down....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #123
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    And if they hadn't? What if that was the first time they'd ever used medicaid? Is there a credit limit that if you go over they tell you to **** off? We either need to get rid of medicaid or honor our committments.
    We're not going to get rid of Medicare/Medicaid and they're not going to continue to pay for unlimited benefits.
    That's what is going to happen, very soon.

    There is no changing that.
    Americans are not adult enough to, be reasonable about this, nor are they adult enough to take care of themselves, without whining.
    So the government is going to do stuff, most won't like, but will tolerate.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #124
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,242
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    You absolutely have a right to hold onto you family member if they aren't really 'dead'. No one has a right to tell you that your loved one has to die because they don't want to spend tax payers money on sustaining life.
    Yes, they do. If people want to hold on to their family members so bad, why do they warehouse them in nursing homes where care is marginal at its very BEST?? So they can visit them for an hour every two weeks and complain about the awful care they're getting? Are they there feeding them three times a day? Changing their diapers? Holding their hands when the pain is overwhelming? Then when they go into the hospital with pneumonia, these same people want them on life support, artificial feeding tubes, etc., etc., until their loved ones slowly wither away. Pick 'em up and take 'em the hell home. Feed them. Change them. No? I thought not. Throw them to the taxpayers and then call the rest of us heartless.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #125
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:07 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,552

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    We're not going to get rid of Medicare/Medicaid and they're not going to continue to pay for unlimited benefits.
    That's what is going to happen, very soon.

    There is no changing that.
    Americans are not adult enough to, be reasonable about this, nor are they adult enough to take care of themselves, without whining.
    So the government is going to do stuff, most won't like, but will tolerate.
    Perhaps I've just been spoiled by Germany when it comes to health care. Whether looking per capita, or as a percentage of GDP, costs here for the entire medical system are about half of what it is in the states. Here nobody who gets cancer is told to **** off, they don't kill their old people who cost too much, and everyone who is sick gets treated.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  6. #126
    Sage
    Crosscheck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:25 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,469

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The government has the right, to not pay for any of it.
    Sustaining life is debatable.

    If a person is brain dead, keeping them on life support is sustaining an empty vessel.
    It's like leaving a car running, with no driver.

    Having work in the medical field have seen countless times of those hard decisions.

    You can see both sides of the argument. That is someone's family member and death is painful no matter what.

    But somehow one has to be realistic. Have seen them put a $60,000 medical equipment into someone who dies within a month.
    The good part of that is the operation is a billable item for the hospital and physician. The bad part is an ill body is forced through another operation. Even a young able body person going through a non-emergent operation is going to suffer some. Yes, the patient got to live a couple more weeks due to the operation maybe but was it worth it.

    There are just so many variables that nothing is black and white. There are only so many available medical dollars available. Do we spend them on someone who has not taken medical advice to help their own body? Do we spend them on someone in prison? It just goes on and on. The bottom line is the cost. We have all paid into Medicare but no individual has paid that much to cover the potential unlimited medical procedures we can offer them.

  7. #127
    Global Moderator
    Truth will set you free
    digsbe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Metro Washington DC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,951

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sure, as long as they pay for it, without using Medicare.
    If you disagree, how much should Medicare pay to sustain one life for one year.

    Is that number infinity dollars?
    I don't believe patients who are going to die should be allowed to pursue any expensive option they want. An 85 year old with cancer all over his body originating in the lungs shouldn't have Medicare paying $500,000-$1,000,000 for him to have a lung transplant (assuming he could get one). I don't think any insurance company should throw vast amounts of money at those who's death is imminent because they want to grab for a hope at living that really isn't there. People when faced with death become desperate and some will want to spend any vast amount of money to have their own perceived chance at life. If they want to they can pay for it privately. My statement was that no one should be denied the option of life saving care, not that it should always be paid for by government insurance.

    I think each case needs to be evaluated. However, I do not approve of liberally applying a pathway to a comfortable death on patients that to have a reasonable shot at life (meaning, roughly a a greater than 20% chance at survival). Medical insurance should be treated as insurance, meaning when something goes wrong there is a set amount of money there for you to get treatment. The limit should depend on your plan. I would like for Medicare to be reformed to be more of a life insurance type thing where if you get terminally ill you pick a policy with a cap. Your plan may insure you for $350,000 but once that is over they have met their obligation and you should be expected to pay the rest.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  8. #128
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Perhaps I've just been spoiled by Germany when it comes to health care. Whether looking per capita, or as a percentage of GDP, costs here for the entire medical system are about half of what it is in the states. Here nobody who gets cancer is told to **** off, they don't kill their old people who cost too much, and everyone who is sick gets treated.
    Everyone is going to be treated, it's just that they're going to do things that will ration based on likely outcomes.
    You're not going to get the most advanced care possible, it's going to be the most cost effective.

    That means if you're completely brain dead, you're not going to be left on life support for 2 years.
    It's not cost effective and not likely to bring a person back to functionality.

    I didn't make these programs and I've argued that they shouldn't exist, in the first place.
    With all that said, people are not going to accept ending these programs and costs have to be controlled.
    Welcome to the world of unrealistic entitlements.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #129
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I don't believe patients who are going to die should be allowed to pursue any expensive option they want. An 85 year old with cancer all over his body originating in the lungs shouldn't have Medicare paying $500,000-$1,000,000 for him to have a lung transplant (assuming he could get one). I don't think any insurance company should throw vast amounts of money at those who's death is imminent because they want to grab for a hope at living that really isn't there. People when faced with death become desperate and some will want to spend any vast amount of money to have their own perceived chance at life. If they want to they can pay for it privately. My statement was that no one should be denied the option of life saving care, not that it should always be paid for by government insurance.

    I think each case needs to be evaluated. However, I do not approve of liberally applying a pathway to a comfortable death on patients that to have a reasonable shot at life. Medical insurance should be treated as insurance, meaning when something goes wrong there is a set amount of money there for you to get treatment. The limit should depend on your plan. I would like for Medicare to be reformed to be more of a life insurance type thing where if you get terminally ill you pick a policy with a cap. Your plan may insure you for $350,000 but once that is over they have met their obligation and you should be expected to pay the rest.
    That's a solid way to look at it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #130
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,242
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Perhaps I've just been spoiled by Germany when it comes to health care. Whether looking per capita, or as a percentage of GDP, costs here for the entire medical system are about half of what it is in the states. Here nobody who gets cancer is told to **** off, they don't kill their old people who cost too much, and everyone who is sick gets treated.
    I suggest you do some reading on German healthcare. Look, if you haven't been personally involved with a terminally-ill dying loved one in Germany, you have no idea what's being done. And nobody anywhere is telling dying people to **** off.

    Here's a start to educate yourself: How German palliative care physicians act at the end of life
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

Page 13 of 48 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •