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Thread: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

  1. #101
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I agree that this is sometimes a problem. It is the responsibility of the care givers to help the decision maker see things clearly through an open and frank discussion of the situation, and this sometimes requires repeated discussions and time for development of trust. It should be explained that what the doctors need to know is what the patient would want for himself if he were able to tell them.
    Well, there are a huge amount of people that won't do that.
    So the government is going to put a ceiling on end of life care.

    A lot of people get disgusted by this though, but how much money should the government pay to extend one life, by one year?
    $10k, $100k, $1mil, $1bil?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #102
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    So you agree that informed consent is necessary before a patient is put on a pathway that will end his or her life?

    I don't have any problem with informing people of their options including things like this pathway, withdrawing life sustaining care, hospice care, etc.. That's a duty the caregivers have.

    Still not sure I have your meaning.
    No one has sud otherwise. The op is from an unreliable source, thus not worth taking at all seriously. Too many try to use such misinformation th advance a false argument. No one has even suggested they not be informed. In fact, what th tea part and some republicans objected to and called a death panel was the provision that required they be informed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #103
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes it's bad, because even though I truly feel for people loosing a loved one.
    (I lost my grandmother, whom I loved dearly, to breast cancer that spread all over, about 4 or 5 years ago.)

    There comes a time, when the person must let go and not continue to let their loved one suffer, plus cost the rest of us, to preserve a life that wants to end.
    My grandmother wanted to quit her chemo, she was miserable, but no one would let her.
    What if the person is not suffering?
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

  4. #104
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    What if the person is not suffering?
    Depends.
    If they're brain dead, why should they be kept on life support?
    If they're sick but not feeling pain, awake and can do things, they should be left to do things, until they no longer can.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #105
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Depends.
    If they're brain dead, why should they be kept on life support?
    If they're sick but not feeling pain, awake and can do things, they should be left to do things, until they no longer can.
    Like with Terry Schiavo, she was already gone but part of her family needed her to remain on life support, they were the ones who would be suffering not her...they should have gotten what they wanted. Some people cannot let go and when the individual who is ill is not in a position to express their will and is not suffering as best as we can tell the family should be allowed to hang on to them for as long as they need to.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

  6. #106
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Why would I report you?

    My husband died of lung cancer after a year-long battle. He had a tumor in his lungs the size of an orange. They removed one lobe. The surgery was excruciatingly painful. Horrible for him. The first day after surgery, they took him off most pain medication; he couldn't even talk he was in so much pain. He took radiation every day for six weeks -- we had to drive 150 miles every day for the treatments. The drive was extremely painful for him every single day.

    The doctor recommended chemotherapy...said he'd take it for the rest of his life, although it might extend it. "Would you do it if you were him?" I asked. "If I had a son graduating from college, and I wanted to be there for his graduation? I might. Otherwise, I would not." (He didn't take it.)

    Anyhow, before he recovered from the surgery? The cancer had moved to his spine. To his spleen. To his kidneys. He was in intractable pain for the rest of his life. Could barely walk. Only in the last few months did they medicate it away. And when they did that? He was gone as well. His death was horrible. I was with him every step of the way.

    My dad had a stroke. He lived with it for nine miserable years. Hated his life. He could barely walk. Had lost any quality of life he had left. His wife had to work, so the kids helped out every single day of those nine years. He was always falling...one day he fell and really hurt his back. The pain wouldn't subside. It left him crying like a baby and in agony every time he moved. Doctors couldn't find a reason for it...they put him in the hospital where he got pneumonia and his kidneys failed. The kidney doctor told us matter-of-factly that he'd be on dialysis at least three days a week for the rest of his life. "How about his back pain," we asked. "We can't do anything about that." We placed him in hospice at the hospital. He died in two days.

    Don't call me a monster. I've been there and bought the T-Shirt. My heart's been broken twice -- with more in the headlights. I don't know how you can possibly take the position you're taking when you withdrew life support from your mother. Kind of hypocritical, don't you think?
    She was basically brain dead or very very near to it. My point was that she was diagnosed terminally ill in 1998 while her quality of life wasnt from that point getting any better to her her life was a valuable enough for her (and me, my brother etc) to take the effort to continue living. You made a generalization asserting that terminal ill people shouldnt try to stay alive because you think that it is not worth the money. You need to realize terminal does not always mean that the patient is going to die in a couple days or even a couple months and you have no right to decide whether their quality of life is worth living in. The reason is because you are not that individual nor are you the family of that individual. What I went through and what you went through was unique to the situation at hand. In my case it did cost medicare groups of money to keep her alive for years but she paid plenty into medicare throughout her life, but most of all she was a human being. Have some damn compassion instead of minding a checkbook that is not yours. I personally spent thousands of my own money and countless time to help her have the best life that she could in her condition. I have no regrets I would do it just the same given a second chance.

    So who are you to say what costs too much when it comes to another individuals life?

  7. #107
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    Like with Terry Schiavo, she was already gone but part of her family needed her to remain on life support, they were the ones who would be suffering not her...they should have gotten what they wanted. Some people cannot let go and when the individual who is ill is not in a position to express their will and is not suffering as best as we can tell the family should be allowed to hang on to them for as long as they need to.
    No, not if it is costing us (taxpayers) resources.
    If they can pay it, on their own, sure.

    Tax dollars should be for the living, not the dead.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #108
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're not listening. You are simply repeating that the lie worked.
    Shouldn't be too hard to prove its a lie. Yes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #109
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    The individual has no right to demand that others pick up the cost of their care indefinitely.
    She was on medicare and some supplemental insurance. And well she was my Mom I gladly gave what she needed.

    So go beat your partisan drum elsewhere. Perhaps you dont give a **** about your loved ones but I do and spent 13 years showing my love and spent money I could have really used invested my business. The key here is that it was not your choice and she paid plenty into medicare nothing was not earned. But thanx for the tired partisan sound bite it really means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

  10. #110
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    Re: 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No, not if it is costing us (taxpayers) resources.
    If they can pay it, on their own, sure.

    Tax dollars should be for the living, not the dead.
    The tax payers are going to have to pay if we want a universal healthcare system that is just, it's required in order to stave off abuses. If we cannot commit to that or are just unwilling than a universal state run health care system will never work.

    Those tax dollars would be for the living, not the dead, the family is still alive, it would be for them.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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