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Thread: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

  1. #111
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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by cado20 View Post
    So you dont care about others and are a arrogant person, you don't care about the unemployment of Millions (with a M). yes because people having jobs and working and paying taxes to the government is bad right? according to you atleast.
    No paying taxes is necessary for the common good. Paying taxes for someone to survive because they aren't interested enough in making something out of their lives is their business, not mine, or the governments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
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    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No matter what we were going to get some sort of austerity package, and it looks like our turn has come.
    There needs to be an auterity package. You can't raise revenue to meet spending. You have to lower spending to meet revenue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    From the OP - just going through and responding.

    Republicans gave in on the spending cuts, known as sequestration, by agreeing to a two-month delay in budget reductions that would be paid for in part with new tax revenue, a condition they had resisted. And the White House made a major concession on the estate tax, agreeing to terms that would permit estates worth as much as $15 million to escape taxation by the end of the decade, Democrats said.
    Wait. So we are going to be doing this again in two months?


    uring a midday event at the White House, Obama praised the emerging agreement even though it would raise only about $600 billion over the next decade by White House estimates — far less than the $1.6 trillion the president had initially sought to extract from the nation’s richest households.
    Boehner offered Obama $800 Bn and he said that he "got that for free". I'd say that Democrats lost that round.


    Other Democrats were upset about the administration’s decision to maintain a big exemption for inherited estates that allows those worth as much as $5 million — $10 million for couples — to go untaxed.

    Although the White House won an agreement to raise the tax rates on larger estates from 35 percent to 40 percent, Republicans successfully insisted that the exemption should be adjusted annually for inflation, a provision that would increase the exemption amount to $7.5 million for individuals and $15 million for couples by 2020, said Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.), the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee.
    I loathe this tax in general, but indexing it for inflation is just smart - no need to create another AMT like debacle. Now we need to do the same for long-term capital gains.

    Under the agreement, the top income tax rate would rise from 35 percent to 39.6 percent for married couples earning more than $450,000 a year and single people earning more than $400,000 a year. Those households also would pay higher rates on investment profits, with rates on dividends and capital gains rising from 15 percent to 20 percent.
    And hiking Capital Gains rates on top of the additional Obamacare tax on them is a loss for Republicans - that's a more than 25% hike in capital gains tax rates for upper income earners.

    In addition to permanently extending tax cuts enacted during the George W. Bush administration for 114 million households, the deal calls for a permanent fix for the alternative minimum tax, which would otherwise hit nearly 30 million taxpayers for the first time when they file their 2012 returns.
    THIS is EXCELLENT. No more monkeying around with temporary tax rates.

    The long-term unemployed could count on receiving emergency benefits for another year, at a cost of about $30 billion.
    This is a problem - as long as we continue to pay people not to have jobs, they won't have them.

    doctors would be spared a 27 percent cut in Medicare reimbursements set to take effect in January — although the $30 billion cost of that extension would be covered by cutting other health-care programs.
    Expected, though it sort of blows the hole in the 'Obamacare reduces the deficit' shibboleth.

    the sequester was back on the table. The White House at first sought a two-year delay, which would have added more than $200 billion to budget deficits. Republicans demanded new spending cuts and offered $120 billion in options.

    As the talks continued, Obama appeared at the White House, demanding in a campaign-style event that any plan to pay for the sequester must be “balanced.”

    “That means the revenues have to be part of the equation in turning off the sequester and eliminating these automatic spending cuts,” he said.
    Sure. So long as you agree to serious entitlement reform. Otherwise, you're not negotiating on "permanent tax rates" in good faith.

  4. #114
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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There needs to be an auterity package. You can't raise revenue to meet spending. You have to lower spending to meet revenue.
    I agree that we need to cut spending but you and i probably disagree where spending needs to get cut at.


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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I agree that we need to cut spending but you and i probably disagree where spending needs to get cut at.
    I think we need to do away with all frivolous and wasteful spending that does absolutely jack-****-nothing for the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #116
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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I think we need to do away with all frivolous and wasteful spending that does absolutely jack-****-nothing for the country.
    I agree with that.
    But what im saying is that we probably disagree with what "jack-****" means.


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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I agree with that.
    But what im saying is that we probably disagree with what "jack-****" means.
    I would say that $4 million dollars vacations, deer underpasses and turtle tunnels should be at the top of the list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh you are completely wrong. those all involve different transactions

    when a company makes money that money belongs to the owners

    the same government taxes the same money twice
    I don't get this. Corporations are -- by definition -- separate entities from the ownership. That's the whole point of limited liabability. That's the price you pay for protection, as an investor, from whatever liabilities a corporation may accrue.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    How do you think we went for $400B (which is not the correct number, its more like $641B) to $1.2T? Its not because we suddenly increased spending. Its because revenues essentially evaporated with the recession. We went from $1.85T in income tax receipts in 2008 to $1.4T in 2009, a difference of $450B in tax receipt shortfall caused by the recession. Add to that $100B in unemployment benefit increase and you are talking about $550B in deficits caused almost exclusively by the recession. Fix the recession and you fix most of the deficit.

    See table 1.1 from the Budget for each of these numbers. Take note of the revenue fall-off from 2008 to 2009.

    Attachment 67140167
    Oh. The 200 billion less in revenue (inevitable in a recession) is responsible, not the 1.2 trillion increase in spending? Silly me.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: Obama, Republicans reach deal on fiscal cliff; Senate vote expected tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I don't get this. Corporations are -- by definition -- separate entities from the ownership. That's the whole point of limited liabability. That's the price you pay for protection, as an investor, from whatever liabilities a corporation may accrue.
    Only certain kinds of companies.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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