• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

0bserver92 said:
Practicing one's religion is fine forcing it on others is not.
Click to expand...

No one is forcing the religion on anyone...IF the employees that work for HL want contraceptives they can go to the store and buy them. Or, work for someone else. Me not buying something for you that my religion is against, is not restricting you from buying it yourself.
 
j-mac said:
No one is forcing the religion on anyone...IF the employees that work for HL want contraceptives they can go to the store and buy them. Or, work for someone else. Me not buying something for you that my religion is against, is not restricting you from buying it yourself.
Click to expand...

No forcing your religious views on your employees.
 
0bserver92 said:
No forcing your religious views on your employees.
Click to expand...

How are the Hobby Lobby honchos forcing their relgious views on their employees? Hobby Lobby isn't telling them not to use contraception, only that Hobby Lobby isn't going to pay for it.
 
0bserver92 said:
They refuse to buy contraception for their employees due to their religious views that is forcing their views on others.
Click to expand...

Meh...In what world? Do they get fired if they buy their own?
 
j-mac said:
Meh...In what world? Do they get fired if they buy their own?
Click to expand...

They are not doing something they are obligated to do for their employees but refuse due to their personal beliefs.
 
0bserver92 said:
They refuse to buy contraception for their employees due to their religious views that is forcing their views on others.
Click to expand...

Unless the act of having sex is part of the job and that act is mandated to be performed on the business premise, the employer should not have to provide any form of contraception.
 
keymanjim said:
Unless the act of having sex is part of the job and that act is mandated to be performed on the business premise, the employer should not have to provide any form of contraception.
Click to expand...

I do not either mainly due to the fact I believe all prescription drugs and contraception should be paid for under a national pharmacare plan.
 
0bserver92 said:
They are not doing something they are obligated to do for their employees but refuse due to their personal beliefs.
Click to expand...

Not following a regulatory mandate under threat of monetary penalty is not discrimination. You are using the term almost exactly backwards. Now, I could understand if you were to say that HL was firing people whom they found out were using contraception, that would be actionable...This however, is not, and the regulation that is actually forcing the real discrimination against the business here, is under dispute by more than just HL.
 
No one is forcing the religion on anyone...IF the employees that work for HL want contraceptives they can go to the store and buy them. Or, work for someone else. Me not buying something for you that my religion is against, is not restricting you from buying it yourself.
Click to expand...

True, if anything making contraceptives covered by employers will make them more expensive in the long run. Things that aren't usually covered tend to be cheap enough to pay out of pocket. Ever been to the vet? It is not cheap but the costs aren't outrageous. Little to no insurance, for procedures that sort of are similar in humans. My cat swallowed a lego tire (not kidding) and it cost 400 dollars for intestinal surgery. Imagine how much intestinal surgery would cost in a human. Probably more. But with insurance in the thousands. There's no reason it shouldn't be too much higher.

My two main problems with Obamacare have nothing to do with what conservatives usually cite. It is not socialized medicine and to suggest so is ridiculous. It is a giant giveaway to big corporations. That being said it is not the mandate.

The two problems with Obamacare as followed.

1. Keeps the framework of an employer based system. Tax benefits that go to corporations should go to individuals. This is keeping us stuck in 1946! Employer based system is among the worst economic ideas ever concocted and ranks slightly behind the lump of labor fallacy on my list of economic bunko. I'd take ANYTHING over that highly inefficient system that is literally crippling our economy as we speak. I'd prefer a true free market system where insurance is portable and there is a tendency to major medical and health savings accounts but I'd take the Canadian system if the only two options were it and the status quo.

2. Obama is forcing insurance to be "comprehensive" and cover more and more things. He is effectively outlawing major medical and liberals are saying high deductibles are "unfair." Really? They keep people fiscally responsible and from overconsuming on health care like Americans do. If you will see the cost of your care more often maybe you will not eat that hot dog or smoke that cigarette. By making things "comprehensive" it is simply passed on in the premiums and this leads to demand for government regulation of personal behavior.
 
0bserver92 said:
They refuse to buy contraception for their employees due to their religious views that is forcing their views on others.
Click to expand...

I may refuse to buy a gun for you because of my religious beliefs but that is certainly not forcing my beliefs on you. It is just a refusal to participate in what private activities you may have when you're away from your place of employment.

What Hobby Lobby is saying is just what John Boehner said to Harry Reid, and do it on your own time.
 
0bserver92 said:
I do not either mainly due to the fact I believe all prescription drugs and contraception should be paid for under a national pharmacare plan.
Click to expand...

Yes, someone else should always pay for everything, with the government acting as the Middle Man.

It's like a protection racket, with the government always taking their cut. Only the G-Men really benefit.
 
Grant said:
Yes, someone else should always pay for everything, with the government acting as the Middle Man.

It's like a protection racket, with the government always taking their cut. Only the G-Men really benefit.
Click to expand...
Infographic-EN-3.jpg

Why not, it helps the elderly in this country primarily, you know the people who built the country but this is Canada so.
 
0bserver92 said:
Infographic-EN-3.jpg

Why not, it helps the elderly in this country primarily, you know the people who built the country but this is Canada so.
Click to expand...

It works do well, that Canadians are crossing into the United States for medical treatment.
 
apdst said:
It works do well, that Canadians are crossing into the United States for medical treatment.
Click to expand...

Not that many, but still fare far better and unlike you our budget can actually balanced in several years, so we can have nice things like pharmacare. Americans always say that but there are far more people who stay here, and Americans immigrating that makes that number null.
 
apdst said:
It works do well, that Canadians are crossing into the United States for medical treatment.
Click to expand...

Obamacare will create a health care crisis in Canada because Canadians will no longer have a place to go for quick treatment with high tech equipment. Now it will involve airplanes, and ever-increasing line-ups through airport security, to get proper health care in Costa Rica or Nicaragua.
 
0bserver92 said:
Not that many, but still fare far better and unlike you our budget can actually balanced in several years, so we can have nice things like pharmacare. Americans always say that but there are far more people who stay here, and Americans immigrating that makes that number null.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Canadian government is promising to balance the budget in a few years and are doing quite a good job. Too bad the Americans didn't vote for a Conservative government also. It would have made North America economically much stronger.
 
This argument just shows why the fewer things government is involved in, the better off we are. That is why the federal government was LIMITED by the constitution. Let people make their own decisions, but let them pay for them too. If they can't afford it, perhaps they think twice before they do it. If you're stupid enough to smoke, you ought to die in the street choking on your own lungs (and I'm a former smoker). If you're 60 lbs overweight, perhaps instead of buying you a scooter, I personally pay for your sorry ass a treadmill and a year long Y membership and you buy your own health insurance. If you want to screw like minks, buy your own contraception. It's time to quit subsidizing health insurance, providing corporate welfare and farm subsidies as well as funding a bloated military and defense companies that contribute nothing but war and death to the rest of the world under the pretense of freedom. /rant
 
Grant said:
Yes, the Canadian government is promising to balance the budget in a few years and are doing quite a good job. Too bad the Americans didn't vote for a Conservative government also. It would have made North America economically much stronger.
Click to expand...

Well it's not a problem of if it's a problem of how, the Conservatives are probably going to lose next election due to how they balanced the budget. Americans seem to have dug themselves into a giant hole that will take decades to climb out of if ever.
 
0bserver92 said:
Well it's not a problem of if it's a problem of how, the Conservatives are probably going to lose next election due to how they balanced the budget. Americans seem to have dug themselves into a giant hole that will take decades to climb out of if ever.
Click to expand...

If the Conservatives lose the next election Canadians will have decided, like the majority of American electorate, that they can spend themselves rich. I thought the American electorate were more sophisticated than what happened last November and it remains to be seen if Canadians fall for that craziness as well.
 
apdst said:
Yes, you did. Right here:
Click to expand...

No I used the right as an example of not following personal responsibility when they cry about others not doing it.. That doesn't mean others don't do it, but then righties bring up personal responsibility but don't follow it themselves. Again hypocritical. Thank you for playing.
 
Grant said:
If the Conservatives lose the next election Canadians will have decided, like the majority of American electorate, that they can spend themselves rich. I thought the American electorate were more sophisticated than what happened last November and it remains to be seen if Canadians fall for that craziness as well.
Click to expand...

Well here there is one giant elephant that you can shot to solve budget problem just Conservatives want to make it bigger. It's called fighter jets. Canada became strong under Liberal governments and will just get stronger both sides have proven they can balance the budget just in different ways. The NDP take a cut corporate subsidies and raise corporate taxes then spend that on small businesses and pay down the debt. The Conservatives are cutting everything people value so there is a really high chance they will lose considering polls for the Conservatives have apparently plummeted 16% since last year. The social issues are also crippling the Conservatives they have shot themselves in the foot too many times. I thought I should also mention that Mark Carney the guy who everyone says is one of the best economists in the world, and is praised by the Conservatives is formerly an adviser to the Liberal finance minster.
 
Last edited:
0bserver92 said:
Well here there is one giant elephant that you can shot to solve budget problem just Conservatives want to make it bigger. It's called fighter jets.
Click to expand...
Fighters jets are going to be the issue in the next Canadian election??? I hope you're joking.

Canada became strong under Liberal governments and will just get stronger both sides have proven they can balance the budget just in different ways.
Click to expand...

Justin Trudeau would be another Barrack Obama. It was his father's economical pov that took Canada to the brink and yes, the Liberals did get Canada out of the jam that the Liberals largely created. Credit does belongs to Paul Martin and Jean Chretien but the son of Pierre is neither.

The NDP take a cut corporate subsidies and raise corporate taxes then spend that on small businesses and pay down the debt.
Click to expand...

Yes, the NDP always pretend they are Conservatives before an election, just as BHO did in his first run at the Presidency. If they are Conservative why don't they run as Conservatives rather than Socialists.

The Conservatives are cutting everything people value so there is a really high chance they will lose considering polls for the Conservatives have apparently plummeted 16% since last year.
Click to expand...

What do the Canadian people think of as "value?

The social issues are also crippling the Conservatives they have shot themselves in the foot too many times.
Click to expand...

What "social issues? Is it a "war against women". "The rich are not paying their fair share"? Nor free condoms? Bloor Street is full of robber barons?

I thought I should also mention that Mark Carney the guy who everyone says is one of the best economists in the world, and is praised by the Conservatives is formerly an adviser to the Liberal finance minster.
Click to expand...

And he obviously gave good advice and was a major influence on the strong Canadian economy right until the day he resigned his position. Too bad he went to London but I'm hoping his policies remain in place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom