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Thread: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    One only needs to look at the right to see the hypocrisy. They whine about personal responsibility, but have no problem taking federal money (FEMA) when disaster hits their states.

    Personal responsibility would dictate you don't live in hurricane prone areas OR you pay for it yourself through insurance and plan ahead.

    your post is laughable... I live in NJ..inland...have paid some of the highest taxes in the USA... but of course you just care about some Obama clown getting a free phone...

    I ddint see Kanye West saying "Obama hates White People"...

    so under your lack of logic nobody should have paid for Katrina...

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    1.)Facts? Who's yours? I haven't seen you back up one thing you call a fact.
    2.)Reality? Again,
    3.)who's reality? Your liberal reality?
    4.)Laws? What law forces the mandatory inclusion of contraception coverage? In answering this please use sourced materiel so that we can see where you are getting your ideas from.

    5.)The argument of discrimination is foolishness. There is no discrimination because someone would have to purchase their own contraception.

    6.)Religious liberty is a fundamental right. The HHS anti-conscience mandate directly goes against that liberty.

    7.)You have to prove discrimination. You haven't even come close to doing that.
    1.) yes facts that a company cant discriminate based on religious grounds, not only has this been backed up but its proven and the laws and court agree. lol
    2.) yep reality, see 1.
    3.) this just exposes your bias, im not a liberal lol good job showing your hand
    4.) its always funny watching the hand full of people that deny facts make stuff up. Who said theres a law that deals with the inclusion of contraception? thats right NOBODY lmao its something you made up
    5.) again the facts and court disagree with you
    6.) yes it is until it infringes on others
    7.) thanks for your opinion but like i said fact and court disagree

    let me know when you have something factual to back up your false claims
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    1.) yes facts that a company cant discriminate based on religious grounds, not only has this been backed up but its proven and the laws and court agree. lol
    2.) yep reality, see 1.
    3.) this just exposes your bias, im not a liberal lol good job showing your hand
    4.) its always funny watching the hand full of people that deny facts make stuff up. Who said theres a law that deals with the inclusion of contraception? thats right NOBODY lmao its something you made up
    5.) again the facts and court disagree with you
    6.) yes it is until it infringes on others
    7.) thanks for your opinion but like i said fact and court disagree

    let me know when you have something factual to back up your false claims

    1.) It is not the employee being discriminated against if their company offered health insurance doesn't cover contraception. It is however, in my view an overstep, and discrimination forced upon HL when the government tells them, a private business, what they must include in that benefit.

    2.) Arrogance will not help you here. If you think that only you have the correct view or answer to this debate, then you have already lost said debate.

    3.) "Liberal", "Progressive", "Obamabot", hell I really don't care what you call yourself.

    4.) Your premise up to now I believe was based on contraception being included in the law. Now, either you are moving the goalposts, or you are on here playing games. Either way it is a dishonest approach.

    5.) The courts are not done with this. Soto didn't address the constitutional question in this at all. All she did was refer it back to the lower court system.

    6.) How is having to pony up for your own contraception, and infringement of your rights?

    7.) Could you point to me where the court specifically disagreed with me?

    I asked you earlier to back up your claims with sourced fact. You failed to do that. So, I will not be held to a standard you have no interest in upholding for yourself.
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If there was something that the government wanted to mandate that insurance cover 100% it should have been chemotherapy.
    They would if they could get dependent voters out of it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Not so fast. Just as the government can take your tax money, which is paid into a general fund, and use some of it to buy ammunition, whether you are morally opposed to it or not, insurance companies can take some of Hobby Lobby's insurance premium money, which is general in nature, and apply it to contraceptive care, whether they are morally opposed to it or not.

    No difference whatsoever.
    Obviously, that's not the case. Otherwise, there wouldn't have to be a law in place to force Hobby Lobby to pay for contraception.

    Also, you're are wrong in the sense that insurance companies are also privately owned companies and not the government. Hobby Lobby is free--or at least they should be--to seek out an insurance company that will sell them the insurance package that they choose.

    Like I said...apples and oranges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Did I say JUST the right? No, I didn't. Nice try at deflecting. The facts remain in my post.
    Yes, you did. Right here:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    One only needs to look at the right to see the hypocrisy. They whine about personal responsibility, but have no problem taking federal money (FEMA) when disaster hits their states.

    Personal responsibility would dictate you don't live in hurricane prone areas OR you pay for it yourself through insurance and plan ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    1.) It is not the employee being discriminated against if their company offered health insurance doesn't cover contraception. It is however, in my view an overstep, and discrimination forced upon HL when the government tells them, a private business, what they must include in that benefit.

    2.) Arrogance will not help you here. If you think that only you have the correct view or answer to this debate, then you have already lost said debate.

    3.) "Liberal", "Progressive", "Obamabot", hell I really don't care what you call yourself.

    4.) Your premise up to now I believe was based on contraception being included in the law. Now, either you are moving the goalposts, or you are on here playing games. Either way it is a dishonest approach.

    5.) The courts are not done with this. Soto didn't address the constitutional question in this at all. All she did was refer it back to the lower court system.

    6.) How is having to pony up for your own contraception, and infringement of your rights?

    7.) Could you point to me where the court specifically disagreed with me?

    I asked you earlier to back up your claims with sourced fact. You failed to do that. So, I will not be held to a standard you have no interest in upholding for yourself.
    1.) again facts and courts disagree, if they choose to not cover it based on religious belifes they are simply wrong, they must play by the rules.
    2.) arrogance has nothing to do with it, this is just a deflection by you, my personal view is also meaningless im just stating reality and facts. theres nothing to "win or lose" lol
    3.) thanks you just further exposed yourself because im none of those, its a failed attemtp to make yourself feel better about your inaccurate opinion but it doesnt work, dishonest people like yourself often use this losing tactic. I get the same thing in gun and war threads i get called con, righty, gunnie etc. its just as stupid then too.
    4.) no thats NEVER been my premise thats some BS you made up in your head because its hard for you not to be biased, i dont care what is being offered or not, my focus in on discrimination. the dishonesty is all on your end as the thread history proves.
    5.) yes with this ONE case its not done but others have been done and other cases just like it. HL isnt a religious realm they are a business.
    6.) never said it was, again you are making stuff up lol, discrimination is what we are talking about. people TRY to make this about WHAT is being offered and that is MEANINGLESS.
    7.) easy you cant discriminate against employees based on religious grounds, its pretty simple
    8.) another deflection huh, like i said facts are on my said because companies cant discriminate based on religion, this is just common sense. I knew you wouldnt have anything though so im not surprised.

    just scroll back and read the examples about wives, parties and hospitals.

    HL ADMITTED their decision was based on a ceo, owners whatever religion, they lose

    If HL doesnt want to play by the same rules as everyone else then they are free to close thier doors they however do not get to discriminate.

    Can ST lukes hospital decided not to allow your wife visitation because they do feel you are married according to their religion? nope thats discrimination. Can they be forced to allow visitation agaisnt their religious views? absolutely and rightfully so.

    If im your wifes boss and i have religion A and she has religion B can i deny her something solely based on my religion A? OF COURSE NOT, thats discrimination.
    I decided not to promote her because my religion A says women are lesser, so thats cool right? of course not
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obviously, that's not the case. Otherwise, there wouldn't have to be a law in place to force Hobby Lobby to pay for contraception.

    Also, you're are wrong in the sense that insurance companies are also privately owned companies and not the government. Hobby Lobby is free--or at least they should be--to seek out an insurance company that will sell them the insurance package that they choose.

    Like I said...apples and oranges.
    If the government mandates that all insurance companies are required to provide this service in all of their packages, then Hobby Lobby is no longer free to seek out one that does not contain that service. They can no more refuse to follow government mandates than they can choose not to follow OSHA guidelines.

    Welcome to reality.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    If the government mandates that all insurance companies are required to provide this service in all of their packages, then Hobby Lobby is no longer free to seek out one that does not contain that service. They can no more refuse to follow government mandates than they can choose not to follow OSHA guidelines.

    Welcome to reality.
    Has the government mandated that insurance companies provide this service in all their packages?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    1.) again facts and courts disagree, if they choose to not cover it based on religious belifes they are simply wrong, they must play by the rules.
    2.) arrogance has nothing to do with it, this is just a deflection by you, my personal view is also meaningless im just stating reality and facts. theres nothing to "win or lose" lol
    3.) thanks you just further exposed yourself because im none of those, its a failed attemtp to make yourself feel better about your inaccurate opinion but it doesnt work, dishonest people like yourself often use this losing tactic. I get the same thing in gun and war threads i get called con, righty, gunnie etc. its just as stupid then too.
    4.) no thats NEVER been my premise thats some BS you made up in your head because its hard for you not to be biased, i dont care what is being offered or not, my focus in on discrimination. the dishonesty is all on your end as the thread history proves.
    5.) yes with this ONE case its not done but others have been done and other cases just like it. HL isnt a religious realm they are a business.
    6.) never said it was, again you are making stuff up lol, discrimination is what we are talking about. people TRY to make this about WHAT is being offered and that is MEANINGLESS.
    7.) easy you cant discriminate against employees based on religious grounds, its pretty simple
    8.) another deflection huh, like i said facts are on my said because companies cant discriminate based on religion, this is just common sense. I knew you wouldnt have anything though so im not surprised.

    just scroll back and read the examples about wives, parties and hospitals.

    HL ADMITTED their decision was based on a ceo, owners whatever religion, they lose

    If HL doesnt want to play by the same rules as everyone else then they are free to close thier doors they however do not get to discriminate.

    Can ST lukes hospital decided not to allow your wife visitation because they do feel you are married according to their religion? nope thats discrimination. Can they be forced to allow visitation agaisnt their religious views? absolutely and rightfully so.

    If im your wifes boss and i have religion A and she has religion B can i deny her something solely based on my religion A? OF COURSE NOT, thats discrimination.
    I decided not to promote her because my religion A says women are lesser, so thats cool right? of course not

    First off, and not the first time you've been told this, so read carefully. Leave my family out of this discussion. Period.

    As I said, I don't give a tinkers damn what you think your political lean is, what you are doing here is patently dishonest. And I really after this post have no further inclination to continue with someone who is not willing to have an honest discussion about this. To that end I will only say, that in the end HL doesn't have to bend to statist will, or go out of business, and as anti American as that thought from you is (although you'll just deny you even said what you said) HL could just pay the fine, and not offer insurance at all, like many other businesses are going to do.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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