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Thread: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

  1. #381
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    1,)Understood, but HL is challenging the law because they disagree with it, and they can do that. 2.) If Obamacare, which is unconstitutional, was upheld by the SCOTUS, I see no reason why they wouldn't side with HL on this. 2.) The SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare basically states that the Constitution really doesn't matter. That sets up a scary precedent for the future.
    1.) yes they can, i agree 100% and im fine with their ability to challenge it and its what makes us a great country, whether i agree with them or not
    2.) you are welcome to this opinion but im not sure how it changes this would still be an infringement at the foundation (the owner forcing something on employees based on religion)
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  2. #382
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    Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That's completely absurd. PACA was always on sound constitutional footing. It's a tax, it's always been a tax, and taxes have always been constitutional. End of story.

    This is completely different and nothing about the PACA ruling, which was sound, bears on this Hobby Lobby issue. Totally unrelated constitutional issues.
    Obama's camp only claimed it was a "tax" when it went before the Supreme Court, before that they called it a fine, or a penalty. And no, forcing citizens to purchase something from a private business is not Constitutional.

    I know that the HL issue is not the same thing. I'm saying that the precedent that the SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare sets, that the Constitution no longer matters, is scary.

  3. #383
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    It basically just makes themselves feel better. But long as they stock their shelves with products from China they are supporting a country that provides abortions to control the population.
    Yes, and that would be an argument made by their opposition in the SCOTUS appeal.

    The reply to such an argument is that products made in America are also made in a country that supports abortion on demand for any reason prior to the prenatal age of viability, and that such an argument is absurdly out of scope .. which, it is.

    The SCOTUS would never consider it.

    The court would only be concerned with the immediate behavior in the scope of the coporation conducting their own business affairs.

    Now if humans were requisitely killed in the very process of procuring the products the company sells, that argument might be considered within scope and thus be admissable.

    But the ownus of proof that such an exceptional situation was occurring would rest with the counsel of HL's opposition.

    Considering the products HL likely sells, that's highly unlikely.

    HL has a great case by simply modifying their bylaws as I previously stated.
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  4. #384
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Obama's camp only claimed it was a "tax" when it went before the Supreme Court, before that
    they called it a fine, or a penalty. And no, forcing citizens to purchase something from a private business is not Constitutional.
    Let's not rehash this. Suffice to say the Supreme Court, led by conservative Chief Justice Roberts, disagrees with you. And so does anybody who has even the fainteste understanding of constitutional law.

    I know that the HL issue is not the same thing. I'm saying that the precedent that the SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare sets, that the Constitution no longer matters, is scary.
    No, it doesn't set a precedent for anything because it doesn't relate. The constitution is being upheld just as well as it ever was. Maybe even better. Roberts is a great chief justice.

  5. #385
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    it explains itself, please be more specific with your questions.

    Do people have a right not to be unfairly discriminated against?

    I don't get it, does Hobby Lobby tell their employees that they can't buy contraceptive?
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Okay ..

    .. Let's say the owner's religious tenet conflicts with your religious tenet, and, as is the topically relevant case, your religious tenet conflicts with the owner's religious tenet.

    How do you resolved that conflict between two conflicting tenets of two religions?

    You don't.

    You, if you're a wise SCOTUS, strip religion from both sides of the argument, and examine the matter at its foundational elements, you examine the substance of the conflict ..

    .. And you settle the matter substantively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    how do you resolve it?

    don't let an employer determine what is and isn't permitted to be covered by your health care - it should be separated from employment. Someone shouldn't be without adequate care because of who they work for when all they do is stock shelves and wipe piss off of toilet seats.

    they're not a religious organization and I'm sick of ****ing CORPORATE BUSINESSES pretending they're suddenly something more than what they ****ing are.
    In the long run, the best solution is to take the employer out of the healthcare providing equation.

    That would go a long way toward solving this and similar problems.

    I wish Obamacare would have done that, as that's really best for all concerned, for both owners and employees.

    Regardless, a privately held business can incorporate, and thus the activity of the business is irrelevant to incorporation, so just because an endeavor is incorporated -- "CORPORATE BUSINESSES", as you state -- in no way precludes the owners from stipulating in their bylaws and business conduct codes the practices they will and will not engage in the process of conducting their affairs.

    Public corporations have just a wee bit more difficult time so stating, as such can affect their stock performance.
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    But what makes a law just? The fact that it exists? Or is there ome other standard?
    Doesn't matter if the law is just, the law is the law. If you think the law is unjust, there exist ways to attempt to change the law. When you actually manage to change the law, then you're free not to follow it. You don't get to ignore it simply because you don't like it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #388
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't get it, does Hobby Lobby tell their employees that they can't buy contraceptive?
    nope but whats that have to do with anything? oh thats right nothing.
    just spit it out what you want to ask or are trying to get at
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    They shouldn't be exempt perhaps, but they are.

    Why not go after the government to be sure that all companies follow the law, if you feel that strongly about justice and rights. Shouldn't that be where your complaints are directed?
    What makes you think that they're not? However, that puts Hobby Lobby in an even worse position, not only should there be no religious exemptions, there should be no exemptions of any kind. Just because those guys over there are getting away with it isn't a license for anyone who wants to get away with it to do so.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #390
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Doesn't matter if the law is just, the law is the law. If you think the law is unjust, there exist ways to attempt to change the law. When you actually manage to change the law, then you're free not to follow it. You don't get to ignore it simply because you don't like it.
    Yes, much the same arguments were used by those who favored Jim Crow, and those who favored slavery before them. What an ignoble tradition you are perpetuating. Disgusting.

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