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Thread: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

  1. #131
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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    An employer has the right to impose many of his own personal standards and beliefs upon his employees. He may have standards of speech and dress and behavior that each employee must follow. THAT is his right. Religion or religious standards are no different. What you and many others are doing is taking a Constitutional protection that the state may not violate and applying it to your fellow citizens. If you are on my property and in my polace of business you are subject to my rules. That some of those rules may have a religious origin does not make them invalid.
    We have seen this argument several times in the courts and it ultimately fails every time. Business owners are subject to government rules and regulations. A business owner which is not operating a religious institution or organization with a religious mission does not have the right to circumvent the law by withholding services on religious grounds. It didn't work for Catholic Charities on the adoption issue, it hasn't worked for a number of small businesses catering to weddings, and it won't work for Hobby Lobby. The Supreme Court will not grant an arts-and-crafts chain a religious exemption.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    We have seen this argument several times in the courts and it fails every time. Business owners are subject to government rules and regulations. A business owner which is not operating a religious institution or organization does not have the right to circumvent the law by withholding services on religious grounds.
    Well, the courts are currently divided on that.

    Luitjohan Contractors, Illinois Business, Can Defy Obamacare, Not Cover Workers' Contraception: Court divided federal appeals court has temporarily barred the U.S. government from requiring an Illinois company to obtain insurance coverage for contraceptives, as mandated under the 2010 healthcare overhaul, after the owners objected on religious grounds.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    We have seen this argument several times in the courts and it fails every time. Business owners are subject to government rules and regulations. A business owner which is not operating a religious institution or organization does not have the right to circumvent the law by withholding services on religious grounds.
    Actually, they do. And our Court system is full of such precedent. There are many case on this exact subject now in the system, and SCOTUS has yet to rule.

    What's with all the doooshbag liberals who support civil disobedience, from upon every moral hobby-horse they can jump on, when its about freebies they want? But then object so strenuously, and ignorantly, when those paying for the freebies claim the same moral high ground upon which to object ?

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You say you're no Republican because they're not conservative, but neither are you.
    Do you have something to discuss about the issue? If so, then discuss. If not, then stop your mother****ing trolling, and leave the Goddamn thread, jerk!!
    Last edited by danarhea; 12-30-12 at 10:55 PM.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Well, the courts are currently divided on that. Luitjohan Contractors, Illinois Business, Can Defy Obamacare, Not Cover Workers' Contraception: Court divided federal appeals court has temporarily barred the U.S. government from requiring an Illinois company to obtain insurance coverage for contraceptives, as mandated under the 2010 healthcare overhaul, after the owners objected on religious grounds.
    Its hardly damning evidence that the courts will rule in their favor. Its just a temporary injunction so they can pass the buck (no pun intended) to the next Court.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Its hardly damning evidence that the courts will rule in their favor. Its just a temporary injunction so they can pass the buck (no pun intended) to the next Court.
    But it certainly illuminates that your original point had no merit.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Who are you quoting ? The facts point to a worse problem than before. Put up or shut up ........ is that so difficult for you ?
    It's actually a lot closer than I thought
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr055.pdf

    Among women who had unintended births in the United States in 1998– 2002, about 40% were using contraception, which means that 60% were not (ref 1, p 92).
    Apparently women who use birth control are really bad at it.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Actually, they do. And our Court system is full of such precedent.
    Our Court system is filled with precedent of even DIRECT provision of a service being held as an entirely constitutional requirement for non-religious organizations providing non-religious services. Health insurance premiums payed for in-part by an arts-and-crafts store doesn't meet the standard of a religious organization, providing religious services, being forced to compromise their religious mission. Hobby Lobby isn't a Church and it doesn't know that any of their employees would even use that benefit, or wouldn't use the benefit for a purpose other than birth control, and, if they did, they wouldn't be paying for it; the insurance company would be. That is why they will lose this case. You can't claim that a third party providing services to another third party violates your freedom of religion; it doesn't work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    But it certainly illuminates that your original point had no merit.
    Another non-decision does no such thing.
    Last edited by Napoleon; 12-30-12 at 11:05 PM.

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's actually a lot closer than I thought
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr055.pdf



    Apparently women who use birth control are really bad at it.
    Which supports my earlier notion. That there is no correlation between government provided birth control , much less the availability of any birth control, and a reduction in "unwanted" births. Frankly, I find it absurd to pretend to measure "unwanted" births !! Is that asking mothers to state whether their wanted their babies post-facto ? The facts say as I noted. That with modern contraception means, we have had a concurrent explosion of child-births in environments completely unable to manage the child socially, and financially.

    Behold the fruits of liberalism !! aka Unintended consequences of the worst kind !!!

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    Re: Atty: Hobby Lobby Won't Offer Morning-After Pill

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Our Court system is filled with precedent of even DIRECT provision of a service being held as an entirely constitutional requirement for non-religious organizations providing non-religious services. Health insurance premiums payed for in-part by an arts-and-crafts store doesn't meet the standard of a religious organization, providing religious services, being forced to compromise their religious mission. Hobby Lobby isn't a Church and it doesn't know that any of their employees would even use that benefit and, if they did, they wouldn't be paying for it; the insurance company would be. That is why they will lose this case. You can't claim that a third party providing services to another third party violates your freedom of religion; it doesn't work that way.



    Another non-decision does no such thing.
    More rubbish ! You state "they are going to lose this case", because you are an authority on such ?

    I want a second opinion

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