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Thread: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    iran can rescind, and become just like israel, no longer subject to the UN inspections
    Israel did not rescind. Ratifying the agreement brought benefits to the Iranian regime. As the Iranian regime will have broken a deal while not refunding the benefits, they would not be the same as a country that never entered an agreement. They could be subject to coalition-dependent sanctions and strongly worded letters.

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Israel did not rescind. Ratifying the agreement brought benefits to the Iranian regime. As the Iranian regime will have broken a deal while not refunding the benefits, they would not be the same as a country that never entered an agreement. They could be subject to coalition-dependent sanctions and strongly worded letters.
    nonetheless, by effecting rescission they could adopt the same stance found acceptable to the UN, as a non-participant to the NPT and no longer subject to UN scrutiny
    by adopting this gambit they expose israel's hypocrisy on the matter (insisting the UN monitor the iranian facilities while exempting its own facilities from like UN inspection)
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    nonetheless, by effecting rescission they could adopt the same stance found acceptable to the UN, as a non-participant to the NPT and no longer subject to UN scrutiny
    Wrong, they will have agreed and then rescinded and may be subject to UN actions as a result.

    by adopting this gambit they expose israel's hypocrisy on the matter (insisting the UN monitor the iranian facilities while exempting its own facilities from like UN inspection)
    There is no hypocrisy. Israel made no similar agreement.

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Wrong, they will have agreed and then rescinded and may be subject to UN actions as a result.
    no longer being bound by the provisions of the NPT neither would iran be subject to UN inspection - just like israel



    There is no hypocrisy. Israel made no similar agreement.
    the obvious hypocrisy is israel's insistence that the iranians be subject to UN inspections which israel will not permit for itself
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no longer being bound by the provisions of the NPT neither would iran be subject to UN inspection - just like israel
    But Iran would be subject to actions by the UN for breaking an agreement after benefits rendered. One cannot simply make an agreement and expect to break it without repercussions. By making the agreement, one becomes subject to the regulations and penalties therein. Why do you refuse to accept that there is responsibility that comes with ratifying a UN agreement? - not just like Israel.

    the obvious hypocrisy is israel's insistence that the iranians be subject to UN inspections which israel will not permit for itself
    There is no hypocrisy, only context that you refuse to recognize. Iran made an agreement and Israel did not; thus, Iran is subject to that agreement and Israel is not.



    Do you think that the US should be able to force Iran to ratify the Rome statutes? And, if not, then why should Iran be able to force another country to ratify something? Via nuclear blackmail, nonetheless. You really don't see a problem with breaking agreements regarding nuclear weapons, starting a cold war and blackmailing the world in attempt to force another country to ratify a UN treaty against their will and benefit?

    Who gave Iran the ability to break UN agreements without consequence and made them the boss of everyone? You did. Why?
    Last edited by ecofarm; 12-28-12 at 03:16 AM.

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    But Iran would be subject to actions by the UN for breaking an agreement after benefits rendered. One cannot simply make an agreement and expect to break it without repercussions. By making the agreement, one becomes subject to the regulations and penalties therein. Why do you refuse to accept that there is responsibility that comes with ratifying a UN agreement? - not just like Israel.



    There is no hypocrisy, only context that you refuse to recognize. Iran made an agreement and Israel did not; thus, Iran is subject to that agreement and Israel is not.



    Do you think that the US should be able to force Iran to ratify the Rome statutes? And, if not, then why should Iran be able to force another country to ratify something? Via nuclear blackmail, nonetheless. You really don't see a problem with breaking agreements regarding nuclear weapons, starting a cold war and blackmailing the world in attempt to force another country to ratify a UN treaty against their will and benefit?

    Who gave Iran the ability to break UN agreements without consequence and made them the boss of everyone? You did. Why?
    show us what prevents iran from rescinding its commitment to participate in the NPT agreement, such that it would be like israel - no longer subject to UN inspection
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    too bad iran did not make such access conditional upon israel also making its facilities open to UN inspection ... we will but only if they will
    What does the subject of this thread have to do with Israel??

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    show us what prevents iran from rescinding its commitment to participate in the NPT agreement,
    For examples:

    The United States yesterday called on members of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty to establish penalties for nations that withdraw from the pact, Reuters reported (see GSN, May 8)...

    Ford mentioned several possible penalties that could be levied against nations that abandon the treaty, including cutting off future nuclear sales, requiring the return of already provided technology and materials, and the prospect of Security Council sanctions, Reuters reported (Mark Heinrich, Reuters, May 9).
    U.S. Urges Penalties for NPT Withdrawals | Global Security Newswire | NTI

    Australia is considering a drive to punish Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty member states that violate and then abandon the pact, the Australian Associated Press reported today (see GSN, Oct. 21, 2008)...
    Australia Could Seek Penalties for Abandoning NPT | Global Security Newswire | NTI

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What does the subject of this thread have to do with Israel??
    the thread had to do with iran
    and i posited a gambit that i think iran should employ as a condition of allowing UN inspections to occur
    that proposal would be to force the UN to exhibit parity by imposing the same oversight on israel - a vocal advocate of UN inspections of iranian facilities
    and should the UN oppose such a condition, because israel is not a signatory to the NPT, then iran should use that failure to similarly monitor israel as its legitimate basis to rescind its own execution of the defining NPT, thereby keeping the UN (and israel) at bay
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
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    Read more @: Iran May Open Military Site to UN Nuclear Watchdog - ABC News

    Iran may allow inspectors to visit this site if the foreign threats calm down. I say we need to lower these threats, allow the IAEA to visit, and both sides come to the table immideatly. War should not be an option. Lets lower the pathetic rhetoric and have a serious talk on this issue.
    There really isn't much to talk about at this point, nothing at least that hasn't been covered in the Geneva, Malta, New York, etc talks before. At the heart of the matter is whether or not Iran desires a nuclear, or proto-nuclear capability. The evidence has for many years heavily indicated that they are in fact desirous of such a capability and moreover that they have been taking steps to pursue it. This has been confirmed and re-confirmed by a slew of recent revelations and reports. If nothing else the open fact that Iran continues to enrich its uranium to 20% U-235, with particles detected upwards of 25-30%. There is no reason to do this unless you are on a weapons trajectory. It's why the benchmark of enrichment places anything below 20% as lightly enriched uranium (LEU) and anything above it as highly enriched uranium (HEU). It is not disputed that Iran is stockpiling U-235, as well as creating other facilities and fortified reactors where some have begun to worry that enrichment in small amounts has reached higher levels for test purposes. The IAEA also issued a report claiming that Iran had returned, or probably more accurately had been rediscovered, to be researching warhead design and implosion triggers.

    Don't get me wrong I don't think we've reached the point where intervention is necessary or even desirous, but I don't think another round of talks or a relaxing of sanctions will do much good in this environment. We've had some inkling that some Iranian officials want a deal, and that the pressure on the government, and on the economy, is mounting to an unsustainable point. We'll have to see, and we should listen to what we hear. I think a much more positive move would be to declare an absolute enrichment cap, after which international powers commit to a targeted strike. Give a cap of 25% or 35% and say that once sustained enrichment at these levels is detected or discovered, an attack will occur. I believe that in conjunction with sanctions if the Iranian government believes that an attack will actually occur, it will cause a huge amount of dissension and debate about whether to risk crossing that threshold. Moreover by setting a clear threshold you create an open and transparent pretext for limited hostilities should the need arise, and you also give a window for a climb down.

    I think we can avoid a conflict potentially, but it's foolish to pretend that you can talk someone into giving up a strategic interest just because you engage them in negotiations.

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