• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun owners

interestingly enough you are far more likely to shoot a friend or family member with your gun than to do one of these things. Oh, and then you get the lovely problem of having to justify your killing to the police and potential lawsuits that come with killing or shooting someone.

Where do these statistics come from? I ask because there are nearly 300 million firearm in the hands of private citizens. So are these winning the powerball lottery Odds or are these meaningful odds or is just horse crap that the anti-2nd amendment crowd spews?



U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people | Reuters
U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.

About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.

The 10 countries with the most heavily armed civilians on Earth
1 United States: 88.8 guns per 100 people. The U.S. has the most heavily armed citizens in the world. In fact, 62 per cent of Americans have more than one gun in their home or on their property.
 
You watch, this kind of incident is going to lead to more regulations online.

Not all rights are unconditional. The right to free speech does not include the right to incite violence. The right to keep and bear arms, as hated of a stance as it is around here, does not necessarily include every firearm in existence. The right to vote should only extend to citizens over the age of seventeen.
 
Where do these statistics come from? I ask because there are nearly 300 million firearm in the hands of private citizens. So are these winning the powerball lottery Odds or are these meaningful odds or is just horse crap that the anti-2nd amendment crowd spews?



U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people | Reuters
U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.

About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.

The 10 countries with the most heavily armed civilians on Earth
1 United States: 88.8 guns per 100 people. The U.S. has the most heavily armed citizens in the world. In fact, 62 per cent of Americans have more than one gun in their home or on their property.

ummm, but those are the wrong stats if you want to argue that you are more likely to stop an armed intruder than to shoot friends or family members. What you might want to quote is accidental and domestic incidents regarding guns and injuries. Then you could compare those to the number of robberies and criminal incidents where civilians were responsible for stopping with firearms. You are just quoting the numbers of guns which doesn't tell us much.

now, there is one thing i would like to note. The idea that firearm possesion by citizens leads to a decrease in crime seems to be somewhat wrong when you consider the heavy crime rate in the US, coupled with our also heavily armed civilian population. It does not seem to be making us any safer to have all these armed people around. As a matter of fact when you compare the homicide and gun injury rates of the US compared to countries with strict gun control the US clearly has a lot more murders and gun injuries than those countries have. The gun injuries would sort of make sense given the higher percentage of gun owners, but not the homicides considering you could kill a person with anything. It is interesting to note that with the decrease in guns comes a decrease in homicides.

If you are going to quote stats, please make them relevant and don't support the case of your opposition in the future.
 
You watch, this kind of incident is going to lead to more regulations online.

Not all rights are unconditional. The right to free speech does not include the right to incite violence. The right to keep and bear arms, as hated of a stance as it is around here, does not necessarily include every firearm in existence. The right to vote should only extend to citizens over the age of seventeen.

I dislike gun ownership by stupid people. Since gun owners seem to be opposed to training, certification, permits, regulations, registration, and anything other than the effort to drive down to the store to pick up your uzi I am pretty much seeing there is no willingness to show proficiency with a firearm or even to attempt to keep them out of the hands of crazies. Since it is an all or nothing thing with the gun people, I would have to say nothing given the evidence of what gun banning does to violent crime like homicides. If people want to play all or nothing with no compromise then it is time to strip them all of their rights since the majority of gun owners shouldn't be able to buy airsoft guns legally due to their irresponsibility.
 
I dislike gun ownership by stupid people. Since gun owners seem to be opposed to training, certification, permits, regulations, registration, and anything other than the effort to drive down to the store to pick up your uzi I am pretty much seeing there is no willingness to show proficiency with a firearm or even to attempt to keep them out of the hands of crazies. Since it is an all or nothing thing with the gun people, I would have to say nothing given the evidence of what gun banning does to violent crime like homicides. If people want to play all or nothing with no compromise then it is time to strip them all of their rights since the majority of gun owners shouldn't be able to buy airsoft guns legally due to their irresponsibility.

I agree that there does appear to be a strong refusal to compromise on the part of gun rights supporters. I strongly disagree with reacting to one extreme with the other extreme.

I think this whole guns issue is very complex and murky. That's why I've tried to avoid making blanket statements when they aren't warranted. What both the gun rights supporters and gun control supporters must realize is that any potential rule changes do not have to be all or nothing. Case in point, I don't think any sane person would want a serial killer to have a gun. Neither do I think most of us want to deny a homeowner the right to defend his or her home. But those are, roughly speaking, two endpoints, and no matter what your threshold is, there is going to be some gray area in there somewhere.

In short, I'm willing to listen to either side of the debate. But I have little patience for I'm-right-you're-wrong absolutist arguments. Sell me with facts, including the facts you don't like.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Another good reason all attempts at gun registration should be resisted.

When you guns can cause harm to me, my family, or friends I have every right to know! I am not saying you cant have guns but I am saying that guns are deadly and if they are stolen they can be used to harm. How do I know if you have the ability to keep guns out of the hands of nutjobs. I dont therefore I say it is a small price to pay!
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

When you guns can cause harm to me, my family, or friends I have every right to know! I am not saying you cant have guns but I am saying that guns are deadly and if they are stolen they can be used to harm. How do I know if you have the ability to keep guns out of the hands of nutjobs. I dont therefore I say it is a small price to pay!

Your listed as being in Ft. Worth, no such list exist for that location. We don't have permits for guns.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

But I heard from many gun enthusiasts that gun actually deter criminals because they get afraid of being shot? How many times have we heard the idea that if everyone had guns then crime would drop? Now you want it on the other side where crime goes up? Is this Romnesia effecting society, or do you always take completely contradicting sides of an argument?

BTW you know what would solve the problem of theives coming into your house looking for a gun? Not having one for them to steal.

Really?

What if a newspaper published the names of all known homosexuals in the paper?

Of course I could simply and snugly say "well if you don't want to be a target don't be gay."

You see, my position on this issue is that the paper had no right to post that information. I suppose some are proud to be known to own guns and will certainly blow a persons cap off if they even attempt to break into their homes, while others would rather have the notion they own a firearm confidential...

If I were one of the gun owners listed I would sue the paper for defamation (and/or) libel.

Besides this stunt is a perfect example of how fascist this progressive media actually is. What are they going to do next? post a list of "known tea party members?" post a list of those who "oppose large government?"

Furthermore, if anything happens to these people and they need to use their firearms to protect themselves, family or property - those individuals can blame the newspaper for having to use their firearm to defend themselves.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Either way the newspaper will immediately cite 1st Amendment Rights. Under Free Speech. Yet I wonder how many working there for that newspaper thought this was the Right thing to do. As Mr Nick just stated.....whats to prevent other lists from being published?
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Either way the newspaper will immediately cite 1st Amendment Rights. Under Free Speech. Yet I wonder how many working there for that newspaper thought this was the Right thing to do. As Mr Nick just stated.....whats to prevent other lists from being published?

Of course, they will claim First Amendment rights while trying to destroy the Second Amendment..

As a libertarian I view the Bill of Rights and US Constitution as a all-or-nothing scenario. One either believes in all amendments or believes in none. Sadly progressives generally pick and choose.
 
From the original article:
The map indicates the addresses of all pistol permit holders in Westchester and Rockland counties. Each dot represents an individual permit holder licensed to own a handgun — a pistol or revolver. The data does not include owners of long guns — rifles or shotguns — which can be purchased without a permit. Being included in this map does not mean the individual at a specific location owns a weapon, just that they are licensed to do so.....
http://www.lohud.com/interactive/ar...1011/Map-Where-gun-permits-your-neighborhood-
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Really?

What if a newspaper published the names of all known homosexuals in the paper?

Of course I could simply and snugly say "well if you don't want to be a target don't be gay."

Or maybe people could start thinking beyond their prejudices and say it is OK to be gay and then there would not be any problem. How does it feel? Not a great feeling right? Maybe the next time you see some idiot using the word gay or fag in some sort of negative contect you smack them upside the head for being a moron. Or we could all just say this is part of life and enjoy stuff like this. Oh but some people are for freedom to have guns, and not for freedom to diddle people in the ass. A little solidarity and you might find some other people who would say hey don't do that, but when the votes against gay marriage, or the votes against birth control, or the people trying to pass laws to keep black from voting as much, or the people who want to pull over and investigate anyone who looks hispanic you really come off just as spoiled and selfish as the welfare queen who hates white people. because I can go either way with guns, and there are a whole lot of people like me, so give the world of people a little more respect, and if you are already doing it go cuff the dumbass friend of yours who makes all the stupid comments in the back of the head. because we can all behave like adults and start recognizing we should all take responsibility for ourselves and stop worrying about that other guy who is doing something we find disgusting but yet doesn't effect us at all.
You see, my position on this issue is that the paper had no right to post that information. I suppose some are proud to be known to own guns and will certainly blow a persons cap off if they even attempt to break into their homes, while others would rather have the notion they own a firearm confidential...

though you may object to the listing the paper had every right to do so. The records are public. The problem you are having is actually not with the paper believe it or not. It is with the people who use guns for the wrong purposes and screw things up for everyone else. There is a big opportunity here for the non-gun owners, and the good gun owners to come together to pass some sort of way to weed out the crap. Instead the gun owners are willing to do nothing, and the other side seems to be the people who want to ban guns, and no good middle ground is getting presented. That is the fault of extremists, and they do not have the mental capacity to think in terms of real regulation while allowing those with the drive to posses a firearm a path to do so. They just talk about ban or not. I will agree a full on ban would be hard to implement and take years to really get going considering how many guns are out there. I am also pretty sure that before any of that gets done the government has to legalize drugs or else they are just going to make another cash cow for criminals.

yeah, you are right, i don't even think the idea i am arguing about will work well. As a matter of fact i know it won't. But i tried to talk reasonably about coming up with some real regulations and all the gun nuts were not going to have any of that. Go back and look at my posting history and yopu will see a progressive change due to the large wave of idiocy I was swamped with after suggesting we remove private sales and force background checks on anyone who wants to purchase a gun. I suggested we have expiring licenses to own a gun. I suggested that we have tiers of training for different levels of gun ownership. i wanted a gun license to be something someone was proud to have because it meant they did the dilligent work to train and become responsible firearm owners. It is something that they could have that others would not have until they wanted to go through the proper system and be a law abiding part of the community.

but that is a horrible thing to suggest because people want their guns and they want them with no responsibility.
If I were one of the gun owners listed I would sue the paper for defamation (and/or) libel.

You really need to look up what those words mean. you took the label on yourself and they are not lying about you. you cannot just sue because you don't like what is printed. It is public knowledge and you have no legal expectation of privacy. Also, if you are claiming there is nothing wrong with owning a gun then there should be no prejudice against gun owners. maybe you should do something about the image of gun owners that the NRA and gun owners seem to promote. because the image is certainly not of a level headed intelligent person who likes guns. We all see crazy old charlston heston and his rifle. Crazy old coot with a gun is not the message you want to be sending to people. It may get your troops all mustered but it has the direct opposite effect on the opposition. Don't even think about Clint eastwood. Find an intelligent respectable gun owner to take up the cause. Chose someone known for safety and intelligence. chose one of those mythbuster guys or someone like them. the only thing you get when you have crazy old coot with a gun is opposition because no one wants to see the crazy old white guy coming around with his gun. We know what comes next.
Besides this stunt is a perfect example of how fascist this progressive media actually is. What are they going to do next? post a list of "known tea party members?" post a list of those who "oppose large government?"

Are you ashamed of your affiliations? I know i would be ashamed to be part of the tea party, but i thought the tea party liked being the tea party. If your ideas are so crappy you don't want to stand behind them perhaps you should be looking at the quality of your ideas.
Furthermore, if anything happens to these people and they need to use their firearms to protect themselves, family or property - those individuals can blame the newspaper for having to use their firearm to defend themselves.

oh i am sure they will blame the newspaper. It would be totally wrong to blame the person who committed the crime because it was certainly the newspapers fault. guns don't kill people, newspapers do. If you do not notice the sarcasm and idiocy there you really need to check your mental condition.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Or maybe people could start thinking beyond their prejudices and say it is OK to be gay and then there would not be any problem. How does it feel? Not a great feeling right? Maybe the next time you see some idiot using the word gay or fag in some sort of negative contect you smack them upside the head for being a moron. Or we could all just say this is part of life and enjoy stuff like this. Oh but some people are for freedom to have guns, and not for freedom to diddle people in the ass. A little solidarity and you might find some other people who would say hey don't do that, but when the votes against gay marriage, or the votes against birth control, or the people trying to pass laws to keep black from voting as much, or the people who want to pull over and investigate anyone who looks hispanic you really come off just as spoiled and selfish as the welfare queen who hates white people. because I can go either way with guns, and there are a whole lot of people like me, so give the world of people a little more respect, and if you are already doing it go cuff the dumbass friend of yours who makes all the stupid comments in the back of the head. because we can all behave like adults and start recognizing we should all take responsibility for ourselves and stop worrying about that other guy who is doing something we find disgusting but yet doesn't effect us at all.


though you may object to the listing the paper had every right to do so. The records are public. The problem you are having is actually not with the paper believe it or not. It is with the people who use guns for the wrong purposes and screw things up for everyone else. There is a big opportunity here for the non-gun owners, and the good gun owners to come together to pass some sort of way to weed out the crap. Instead the gun owners are willing to do nothing, and the other side seems to be the people who want to ban guns, and no good middle ground is getting presented. That is the fault of extremists, and they do not have the mental capacity to think in terms of real regulation while allowing those with the drive to posses a firearm a path to do so. They just talk about ban or not. I will agree a full on ban would be hard to implement and take years to really get going considering how many guns are out there. I am also pretty sure that before any of that gets done the government has to legalize drugs or else they are just going to make another cash cow for criminals.

yeah, you are right, i don't even think the idea i am arguing about will work well. As a matter of fact i know it won't. But i tried to talk reasonably about coming up with some real regulations and all the gun nuts were not going to have any of that. Go back and look at my posting history and yopu will see a progressive change due to the large wave of idiocy I was swamped with after suggesting we remove private sales and force background checks on anyone who wants to purchase a gun. I suggested we have expiring licenses to own a gun. I suggested that we have tiers of training for different levels of gun ownership. i wanted a gun license to be something someone was proud to have because it meant they did the dilligent work to train and become responsible firearm owners. It is something that they could have that others would not have until they wanted to go through the proper system and be a law abiding part of the community.

but that is a horrible thing to suggest because people want their guns and they want them with no responsibility.


You really need to look up what those words mean. you took the label on yourself and they are not lying about you. you cannot just sue because you don't like what is printed. It is public knowledge and you have no legal expectation of privacy. Also, if you are claiming there is nothing wrong with owning a gun then there should be no prejudice against gun owners. maybe you should do something about the image of gun owners that the NRA and gun owners seem to promote. because the image is certainly not of a level headed intelligent person who likes guns. We all see crazy old charlston heston and his rifle. Crazy old coot with a gun is not the message you want to be sending to people. It may get your troops all mustered but it has the direct opposite effect on the opposition. Don't even think about Clint eastwood. Find an intelligent respectable gun owner to take up the cause. Chose someone known for safety and intelligence. chose one of those mythbuster guys or someone like them. the only thing you get when you have crazy old coot with a gun is opposition because no one wants to see the crazy old white guy coming around with his gun. We know what comes next.


Are you ashamed of your affiliations? I know i would be ashamed to be part of the tea party, but i thought the tea party liked being the tea party. If your ideas are so crappy you don't want to stand behind them perhaps you should be looking at the quality of your ideas.


oh i am sure they will blame the newspaper. It would be totally wrong to blame the person who committed the crime because it was certainly the newspapers fault. guns don't kill people, newspapers do. If you do not notice the sarcasm and idiocy there you really need to check your mental condition.

Yeah? maybe people shouldn't be prejudice against guns and those who own them?

You see how that works?

I don't have a problem with homosexuality, but I was using the idea as an alternative example. A "witch hunt" is a "witch hunt" regardless who is being attacked.
 
I certainly hope the owners have safes
, security systems and the local cops
have improved their response times. While the criminals now know which houses not to go to when the owner is home, if they want guns, then they also know which ones to go to when the owner isn't home.

Spoken like a true non-gun owner. They have these devices called gun safes. Its common for gun owners to own them and usually they're more trouble than they're worth if your'e trying to gain access minus a key, combination or thumbprint.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Either way the newspaper will immediately cite 1st Amendment Rights. Under Free Speech. Yet I wonder how many working there for that newspaper thought this was the Right thing to do. As Mr Nick just stated.....whats to prevent other lists from being published?

Exactly.

People need to be more consistent. Either the First and Second Amendment both have limits, or neither one of 'em do.
 
If a robber knows you have a gun in your house, he'll just wear armor (along w/his bringing his gun) and/or bring in extra armed help when he tries to rob it.

No, thieves almost never want to target a house where any risk might be involved.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

When you guns can cause harm to me, my family, or friends I have every right to know! I am not saying you cant have guns but I am saying that guns are deadly and if they are stolen they can be used to harm. How do I know if you have the ability to keep guns out of the hands of nutjobs. I dont therefore I say it is a small price to pay!
I have a car, a van, and a truck that could be used to run you down in the street, I have a 5 gallon can of gas and a lighter, I own a machete an ax and a cleaver and three guns. So now that you know, How is that going to change anything for you?
 
interestingly enough you are far more likely to shoot a friend or family member with your gun than to do one of these things. Oh, and then you get the lovely problem of having to justify your killing to the police and potential lawsuits that come with killing or shooting someone.

Maybe in a blue state. In Texas not so much.
 
Maybe in a blue state. In Texas not so much.

Or California. Or any other state with castle defense laws.

This isn't a black-and-white, or should I say red-and-blue, issue.
 
Last edited:
I have owned at least one gun for the last 38+ years; friends shot = 0, family members shot = 0, doing one of these things = 1. I would much rather be judged by twelve than be carried by six. When seconds really matter the police are only minutes away. More people wearing shoes with no gun are shot than those wearing shoes and carrying guns. Statistics are only as good as their source.


Well put.
 
I have no problem with people knowing I have guns.

ee087s - protected smith and wesson.jpg

As for someone burgling my place, I have other defenses for that.
 
My oldest daughter's college has a known policy of no firearms allowed on campus and it is grounds for explusion - meaning anyone walking off campus is known to certainly be unarmed. There are now literally numerous muggings and violent assaults mostly against it openly known unarmed women who leave campus - include now groups of women - and the incidents are growing generally within 1 to 2 blocks of campus. Campus security can not act off campus.

So the campus now is urging no students to leave campus. Particularly since it has become known that these assaults are literally part of a gang initiation requirement - to assault one or more students of her campus. The response of the university is to urge no one to leave campus.

Her's is a liberal perspective university in general.

I've noticed that is the expectation of many liberals now. 1.) That it is essentially criminal not to mind your own business - meaning a legal duty to be totally apathetic towards others in terms of protect and coming to their aid and 2.) to hide. To look out your window to see if anyone is around - and then with key in hand run as fast as you can to get in your car, lock the door and drive off (sitting low) straight to where you are going - and only if you must.

Thus, if people would just voluntarily imprison and isolate themselves, there would be less violent crimes and less gun violence.
- - - - -

As a footnote, my daughter with a couple other concerned students made a formal inquiry of whether campus police are "police" or "security" - meaning whether they have a right to frisk/search anyone? The answer is they are only security and have no right to search or frisk any student.

Her and the student's response? "Well, I guess that solves the problem." The campus administrator asked "what problem?" Response? "oh, never mind, don't worry about it." And they are spreading the word. I suspect a wannabe gang member or 2 are in for quite surprise fairly soon. No rule against having a firearm off campus and sort of hard to know when a person actually came into exact possession of it. Whatjathink?

The anti-gun folks have a lot of slogans - untrue ones - of "you're more likely to shoot a relative or friend than use a gun to stop a crime." But those are just false slogans. No one was ever accidentally raped, violently assaulted, murdered, mugged or robbed.

Here is a statistic that matters, too bad someone hasn't tried to calculated it. 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 (depending whose statistics you believe) women will be sexually assaulted in their life time. Or about 35,000,000 women in this country.

What percentage of those women had a firearm in her possession when she was assaulted - and what percentage did not. Anyone care to guess?

Anti gun liberals don't care about that. They only care about gun-deaths. And NEVER bother to say which were criminals killed in the commission of a crime - because they don't care about crime. They only care about guns.

As one member suggests, a woman shouldn't use a gun to prevent being raped because she then might get questioned by the police. Better to just get raped and then let the police file a report.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom