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Newspaper sparks outrage for publishing names, addresses of gun owners

Totally false. Crime pays, or else there wouldn't be any criminals.

Thats kind of why they shouldnt have access to intel that shows which houses are armed and which are not. If they dont know, they may find that crime extracts a final payment. We also call that a deterrent.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

It's hard to know what the editorial staff at this newspaper was thinking when they decided to expend the resources to put together this interactive map.

My thoughts exactly. It's just bizarre.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

The newspaper did it to make money. Figured everyone would buy a newspaper to see who of their neighbors are in it.
 
Totally false. Crime pays, or else there wouldn't be any criminals.

A few years ago, someone/s stole the condenser coils from my A/C unit. They took the unit apart to get them. In the end, they did more work and made less than if they had spent that same amount of effort and time at a minimum wage job.

Yes, some crime can pay for awhile, right up until they get shot or arrested and spend many years behind bars, perhaps the rest of their life. What is the current life expectancy of the average ganger drug dealer in major cities today? Yep, pays real well, doesn't it.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

But I heard from many gun enthusiasts that gun actually deter criminals because they get afraid of being shot? How many times have we heard the idea that if everyone had guns then crime would drop? Now you want it on the other side where crime goes up? Is this Romnesia effecting society, or do you always take completely contradicting sides of an argument?

BTW you know what would solve the problem of theives coming into your house looking for a gun? Not having one for them to steal.

Guns do deter criminals. Just like laws. Some are detered from doing bad things because there are laws. Some criminals are detered because they may be entering an area with guns.

The notifying of where guns may be presents a bad situation. It makes people without guns marked, as well as people with guns. Intelligence is bad in the hands of the enemy. That is my point.
 
Why are you rolling your eyes? I do not understand.

It's naive to assume robbers are going to make it easy for homeowners to just shoot them by coming unprepared.
 
A few years ago, someone/s stole the condenser coils from my A/C unit. They took the unit apart to get them. In the end, they did more work and made less than if they had spent that same amount of effort and time at a minimum wage job.

Maybe he couldn't find a job and was desperate for A/C?

Yes, some crime can pay for awhile, right up until they get shot or arrested and spend many years behind bars, perhaps the rest of their life. What is the current life expectancy of the average ganger drug dealer in major cities today? Yep, pays real well, doesn't it.

Depending on where the drug dealer is in the organization, they live long and well. . .

#701 Joaquin Guzman Loera - The World's Billionaires 2009 - Forbes.com
 
It's naive to assume robbers are going to make it easy for homeowners to just shoot them by coming unprepared.

That is what I do not get the eye roll because I never said that in my post.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Whether gun ownership has a positive or negative affect upon crime is often the result of local laws. For example, in New York, you have to have a permit to buy, you have to have a permit to carry. That is how this list got compiled in the first place. Knowing a home belongs to a registered gun owner will deter at least to knowledgeable criminals when the gun owner is home. However, it increases the chances of the home being broken into when the owner is not home. This is because the criminals know that in all likelihood, the home owner has not taken the gun with him, local law makes it too difficult.

Do you have any real data supporting this, or is this just some of your guesses? I would think most burglars would try to enter homes or businesses when no one is there. Armed or not it just seems like it would be easier to me if there was no one present. Unless you are breaking in for some crime like kidnapping where you would want contact with the resident. You are making this claim that burglars who are merely interested in valuables would chose to break into an occupied house simply because they don't have a gun? It seems like some really convoluted gun enthusiast logic to me. It completely violates the logic behind housitters, light timers, motion lights, and all sorts of other things designed to make it look like you are not home. Why do police recommend not advertising you are leaving as a way to reduce the likelihood of robbery when according to you criminals only care if you are home and have a gun?

But hey, maybe you have some statistics which show criminals don't care if you are home if you do not own a gun.
Now contrast that with places like Texas and Oklahoma. No permit is required to purchase a gun. So no such list can even be obtained. Further, there is not permit required to transport you guns. Oklahoma even has open carry now. So even if you know a particular home has a gun, you don't know if the owner took it with them or not.

yes, but this completely wrecks your whole claim that criminals are afraid of gun owners, and not that they want to avoid all contact with potential witnesses or people who might interfere with their robbery. Again, you are taking up completely contradictory sides of a story. Also, as far as i am aware robberies occur in those twop states regardless of the fact their might be a gun. You are trying to take both sides of this. the first side is that knowing there is a gun there deters criminals, and the other is that knowing there is a gun there encourages criminals. It is just the same old republican idea that you will use blatantly contradictory statements depending on which benefits your claim of the moment. Now, if it is true that this list has encouraged criminals to break into gun owners houses, then it is clear that owning a gun does not deter criminals from breaking into your house. Either way i am pretty sure the presence of people in the house probably makes much more of a difference in whether or not your home is broken into.
You are correct, not having one doesn't allow it to be stolen. But it also leaves you more vulnerable to attack.

See, both sides of the coin in the same post. now all of a sudden having a gun is deterrent to an attack. Problem here is most burglars are not interested in attacking you. They are interested in stealing from the easiest possible targets and it is your presence that makes the theft harder. If a person breaks into your house while you are there for the purpose of attacking you then good luck in your shootout.
There is no realistic or possible way to remove all guns from American society.

However, there is clear evidence that the banning of guns in industrialized countries with a well established government and police force reduces homicides and gun injuries by at least 80 percent or more. the US ranks up there with south american countries with major drug trafficking problems in the number of homicides and gun fatalities and injuries. Where european countries and asian countries with Gun bans have homicide and murder rates far below the US. Even Isreal, a country which sees almost constant terrorism and attacks from all around them has much lower homicide and gun injury rates. So their is actually evidence that clearly shows the banning or restriction of guns actually makes the people of the country far less likely to be murdered in general, or even injured or killed by a gun.
So you can post all you want about people not having them, rant all you want about taking them away, but keep in mind, it ain't going to happen, at least not in our lifetimes.

Again, that is an opinion and not a fact. they are quite capable of banning guns in america, or regulating them by need.
And if you think they should be taken away and advocate for others to do it, I want to see you personally and anyone else calling for removing them, amongst those who come for mine.

If they do i will ask them to give me permission to go take your gun. Your gun does not frighten me in the slightest tough guy. of course, the police will probably end up prying it from your cold dead hands, and i won't be crying over one more violent person meeting their end. I just don't really care that you have a gun no matter how frightened you happen to be.
If you are unwilling to risk yourself for you belief, what right do you have to demand that others risk their lives for your beliefs?

As much as i would love to see the look on your face as i take your gun out of your hands, I don't think that would be legal even if they were to ban them. I also don't see myself becoming a cop in that time, so it really is not my choice in that matter. If they want to let me come take your gun if they ban them i would think it would be amusing for all of us except you to see me do so. however, the reality is that many heavily armed people will descend upon you and strip the gun from you probably at a time when you are least prepared to defend yourself. At which point they will arrest you and toss you in prison for whatever the charge becomes for illegally possessing a firearm. i know the gun makes you feel safe, but there are a whole lot more of them than there are of you, and they have more bullets, better equipment, and lots more strength on their side. You can be as tough as you want with your gun, but they will win. i will enjoy watching it on the news.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Originally Posted by tererun
But I heard from many gun enthusiasts that gun actually deter criminals because they get afraid of being shot? How many times have we heard the idea that if everyone had guns then crime would drop? Now you want it on the other side where crime goes up? Is this Romnesia effecting society, or do you always take completely contradicting sides of an argument?

I suspect that most people realize that a criminal that is looking to steal a gun - to use in future crimes -will now know which houses to target when the house is empty and they have time to search for the gun. The criminals that are just looking for the easiest houses to rob and not have to worry about getting shot now know which houses to target for their goal. Basically it comes down to the goal of the would be thief. Shrug.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Guns do deter criminals. Just like laws. Some are detered from doing bad things because there are laws. Some criminals are detered because they may be entering an area with guns.

The notifying of where guns may be presents a bad situation. It makes people without guns marked, as well as people with guns. Intelligence is bad in the hands of the enemy. That is my point.

Wow, you contradicted yourself in less than a paragraph. Really, you just said guns make me safer because they scare criminals, but now i am marked as a target for those criminals so i am less safe. It is just amazing how such contradictory logic is continually presented as reasonable thought.
 
Thats kind of why they shouldnt have access to intel that shows which houses are armed and which are not. If they dont know, they may find that crime extracts a final payment. We also call that a deterrent.

If they don't know what is on the other end it will only escalate their preparation. That means that they have a gun with them. Then all of a sudden you have a shootout in your home with your valuables and possibly your family. Good plan. you took a robber who would have taken some stuff and went away and turned it into a shootout.
 
A few years ago, someone/s stole the condenser coils from my A/C unit. They took the unit apart to get them. In the end, they did more work and made less than if they had spent that same amount of effort and time at a minimum wage job.

Yes, some crime can pay for awhile, right up until they get shot or arrested and spend many years behind bars, perhaps the rest of their life. What is the current life expectancy of the average ganger drug dealer in major cities today? Yep, pays real well, doesn't it.

Wait, you mean they went up to a home with an armed man and took his condenser coils? But i thought you were tough guy with a gun? Why did you not shoot them? probably because they did it when you were gone or without you knowing because that is the way most robberies work. Oh, and it is not that hard to do such things if you know what you are doing.
 
some people don't understand the terms they use

breaking into an UNOCCUPIED HOME TO STEAL is called either burglary or Breaking and entering

breaking into an OCCUPIED HOME TO STEAL is called ROBBERY

how anyone can defend what that idiot paper did is beyond belief

the fact is some posters are upset others have made personal safety an individual responsibility so they complain and whine about armed citizens
 
Wait, you mean they went up to a home with an armed man and took his condenser coils? But i thought you were tough guy with a gun? Why did you not shoot them? probably because they did it when you were gone or without you knowing because that is the way most robberies work. Oh, and it is not that hard to do such things if you know what you are doing.

No, they did it while I was out of town for six months.

And no, none of my guns were at that location at the time. I take them with me when I move between houses.
 
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interestingly enough you are far more likely to shoot a friend or family member with your gun than to do one of these things. Oh, and then you get the lovely problem of having to justify your killing to the police and potential lawsuits that come with killing or shooting someone.

Maybe where you live, not any of the places I live. Oklahoma, you have to have reasonable fear of your life. Texas, deadly force is allowed for the protection of property. It is rare for a home owner in either location that shoots someone to actually be investigated, much less arrested and tried. Haven't heard of any lawsuits from it either.

The cops like it also, less work and less paper work and no hassles from the perps. Saves the county and cities money also.
 
interestingly enough you are far more likely to shoot a friend or family member with your gun than to do one of these things. Oh, and then you get the lovely problem of having to justify your killing to the police and potential lawsuits that come with killing or shooting someone.

I have owned at least one gun for the last 38+ years; friends shot = 0, family members shot = 0, doing one of these things = 1. I would much rather be judged by twelve than be carried by six. When seconds really matter the police are only minutes away. More people wearing shoes with no gun are shot than those wearing shoes and carrying guns. Statistics are only as good as their source.
 
I have owned at least one gun for the last 38+ years; friends shot = 0, family members shot = 0, doing one of these things = 1. I would much rather be judged by twelve than be carried by six. When seconds really matter the police are only minutes away. More people wearing shoes with no gun are shot than those wearing shoes and carrying guns. Statistics are only as good as their source.

You know, for some strange reason a burglar trying to break into my apartment years ago changed his mind about it after he saw me awake and armed. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so.

Lets see, 0 Friends or relatives shot. Since I was in Oklahoma at the time, just them illegally entering is justification for shooting them. At that time you had to wait until the were inside, but now, just trying to get in is enough, but if you really are worried about it, drag them inside anyway.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Wow, you contradicted yourself in less than a paragraph. Really, you just said guns make me safer because they scare criminals, but now i am marked as a target for those criminals so i am less safe. It is just amazing how such contradictory logic is continually presented as reasonable thought.

I get it, you hate guns. This thread's was developed to question if it was ok for the local paper to release the map of gun permit holders. I am saying no. It singled out a group and makes them a target, or maybe it doesn't. This group of people did nothing wrong. I am against what the paper did.
 
If they don't know what is on the other end it will only escalate their preparation. That means that they have a gun with them. Then all of a sudden you have a shootout in your home with your valuables and possibly your family. Good plan. you took a robber who would have taken some stuff and went away and turned it into a shootout.

If criminals start getting shot in the process of going about their "business" more often you will eventually only be left with the hardened criminals who will be easier and easier to identify and lock away with stricter sentencing. Most robberies and burglaries are conducted by a small portion of the criminal population. Anything that deters them from action is a good thing.
 
interestingly enough you are far more likely to shoot a friend or family member with your gun than to do one of these things. Oh, and then you get the lovely problem of having to justify your killing to the police and potential lawsuits that come with killing or shooting someone.

You do realize that you are trying to use statistics to prove a negative right?

If no property damage and no shots are fired, it probably doesn't end up in the police file and even then it won't always show up in statistics.

After the 1995 Federal building bombing, barricades were put around those buildings. No new bombings have occurred, but can you statistically prove that the barricades prevented further bombings? No.

If a criminal doesn't act against a gun owner and instead acts against a gunless victim, can statistics prove that the person owning the gun stopped him/herself from being a victim? No, they cannot. Proving prevention is very difficult. If the crime is stopped before anything happens, there is no way to prove what stopped it or if it was stopped.

My only personal proof is that at least once, I know very well that my being armed did indeed prevent a crime from happening. Since it was never reported to the police, there can be no statistic on it. I also had one individual pull a knife, show it to me(he actually licked the blade) and try to force me to the side of the road, that was until he saw that I had a gun, then he took the next exit and I never saw him again. So that is actually twice in my lifetime that possessing a gun has possibly, one absolutely confirmed, prevented a crime from happening.
 
Re: Newspaper helps ensure safety of registered gun owners

Thank you for the info. on whose is armed and who is not. My associates and I are currentrly in the planning stages of busting in to the homes displayed as having no means of defending themselves. This is as easy pcikens as it gets. Because of this publication I will not only get rich but I will live a long life in which to spend my loot. Would it be asking too much for a list of Americans that own porno and are not armed? There is a big market for that stuff ya know? God Bless America.
 
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