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Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

SheWolf said:
Happened in Chicago, Cabrini Green. Some kid was having a heart attack, and the paramedics were scared to go into the project and give aid. The boy ended up dying from an asthma attack, and his family sued.

If they don't go, they will probably end up fighting lawsuits... :shrug:
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Webster. Isn't. Cabrini Green.
 
Hicup said:
This happened in my neck of the woods and the area is not a good area for anyone to be in.

Why would anyone shoot at first responders is beyond my comprehension unless it was an extremist of some sort trying to make a point about guns or something?


Tim-
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They've made the point, for sure. The point being how easy it is in a society so fixated on Firearms, that absolute senseless murders are becoming uncomfortably more frequent.

Paul
 
Thrilla said:
not when I specifically said " it's not a bad way to go"..
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Most of your post disagrees with your attempt to equivocate. Here, I'll highlight the portions that drew my attention:

Thrilla said:
some people are simply... rabid animals.

I care not one bit what we do with them after they have proven they are rabid animals...I have little objection to holding them in cells, or publicly mutilating them in the most horrible of fashions... they are little more than meat bags to me, bereft of humanity.

we, as a society, have chosen to act civilized in the face of such animals.. we protect them , we protect their rights, and we protect their sensibilities.
not a bad way to go, as it puts us on higher ground... but it is frustrating sometimes, and it really doesn't lend itself to exacting justice.
our civilized nature in the face of these people...well,it is both a strength and weakness.
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"Not a bad way to go" doesn't change the fact that your feelings on the subject pretty directly oppose the Bill of Rights.
 
danarhea said:
Damn, while posting in this thead, a special report just came on the news. 3 shot about 20 blocks from where I live. A police officer is dead, and so is an innocent bystander. The shooter is in the hospital in critical condition, which brings me to another one of my patented rants.

Why the hell are they attempting to save the shooter's life, when we are eventually going to spend millions of taxpayer dollars putting him on trial, imprisoning him for a number of years, before finally putting him to death? It does not make sense. This shooter killed a cop, along with someone who was shopping and minding his own damn business. Let this punk die.

/rant
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We have this strage tradition of requiring a trial before sentencing, but other than that no problem. ;)
 
Ray410 said:
This is very similar to the New York cab drivers refusing to go into certain areas.

Similar to the sniper in Oakland who called the police, then shot them as they arrived. Later the residents in that area had a big celebration because the shooter got four cops. There are entire communities in the United States, just as in Brazil, in which police and firefighters will not go. The Navy Guards at the Hunter's Point Shipyard in California had to have iron barriers for years because of the snipers in the nearby housing projects.

Let their damn houses burn, who cares.
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Webster, NY has a very low crime rate according to the FBI UCR. Looks like a middle class town.

It didn't take long for someone else to try to make their mark.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Most of your post disagrees with your attempt to equivocate. Here, I'll highlight the portions that drew my attention:



"Not a bad way to go" doesn't change the fact that your feelings on the subject pretty directly oppose the Bill of Rights.
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well hell, as long as you are going to strip away the parts that don't fit your opinion of my sentiment, there's not much I can say to defend myself here.


let me retype that for you .. focusing only on the parts that you will read or consider, as per your habit of cherry picking.

well hell, as long as you are going to strip away the parts that don't fit your opinion of my sentiment, there's not much I can say to defend myself here.
 
Thrilla said:
well hell, as long as you are going to strip away the parts that don't fit your opinion of my sentiment, there's not much I can say to defend myself here.


let me retype that for you .. focusing only on the parts that you will read or consider, as per your habit of cherry picking.

well hell, as long as you are going to strip away the parts that don't fit your opinion of my sentiment, there's not much I can say to defend myself here.
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I didn't strip away anything or retype anything. I quoted your entire post.

If you're going to lie, at least try to be creative about it.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
I didn't strip away anything or retype anything. I quoted your entire post.

If you're going to lie, at least try to be creative about it.
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tis true, you didn't strip them away when you quoted it... you just bolded the potion you decided to focus on while ignoring everything else I typed that did not support your opinion.

you might want to entertain the notion of taking a persons whole post into consideration in the future... it will greatly aid in comprehending what the overall sentiment is.
if you continue to focus only on parts of the posts, you increase your chances of being wrong... such as you were in this case.
 
So now that you're done lying, you're going to equivocate. You can't spend that much of your post contradicting the Bill of Rights, then slip a slipshod disclaimer in there and expect to get away with it. Your opinion was very clear.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
So now that you're done lying, you're going to equivocate. You can't spend that much of your post contradicting the Bill of Rights, then slip a slipshod disclaimer in there and expect to get away with it. Your opinion was very clear.
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I sincerely do not mind you being wrong about me or my opinion.

If you choose to believe I do not like the BOR, you are free to do so...if you chose to ignore anything I type that contradicts that belief of yours, you are free to do so as well.

I know you are full of ****.... and I suspect you know it too... but you are free to be as full of **** as you choose to be.
 
Thrilla said:
some people are simply... rabid animals.

I care not one bit what we do with them after they have proven they are rabid animals...I have little objection to holding them in cells, or publicly mutilating them in the most horrible of fashions... they are little more than meat bags to me, bereft of humanity.
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How about collective punishment. Everytime someone commits a crime with an assault weapon. We round up an equal number of assault weapon owners equal to the number of people wounded/killed, and publicly mutilate them. Bet the demand for these weapons would drop rapidly. ;)
 
notquiteright said:
I have found most points can be hidden by wearing a hat. :lol:

Actually it was a question- is it alright for the right wing to chant let them all burn but not for the left wing to demand all ARs be rounded up?

BOTH seems pointlessly extreme.
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The right hold "people" accountable for their actions

The nutters hold everything else but people for their actions.
 
There was only 1 shooter in this, right?

Suicidal Vietnam Vet, as the song described. ;)

I hope there was only 1 shooter.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
We have this strage tradition of requiring a trial before sentencing, but other than that no problem. ;)
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That wasn't my point. My point is that we are going to spend millions of dollars saving his life, and then putting him through a trial, then caring for him in prison, when we are eventually going to be putting him to death anyways. I say we should save the tax payers the money, let nature take it's course, and let him die now. Either way, he is going to die. Why spend MY tax money on him when the outcome is going to end up being the exact same thing?
 
danarhea said:
That wasn't my point. My point is that we are going to spend millions of dollars saving his life, and then putting him through a trial, then caring for him in prison, when we are eventually going to be putting him to death anyways. I say we should save the tax payers the money, let nature take it's course, and let him die now. Either way, he is going to die. Why spend MY tax money on him when the outcome is going to end up being the exact same thing?
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Taking that logic just a tad further; is it the police or a jury that decide your guilt (or lack thereof)? Once we have determined that the police may decide your fate, on the spot, why even make the ambulance call at all, simply let the officer explain that your "escape attempt", required his brave, deadly force, response and save "nature" the trouble, as well.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Taking that logic just a tad further; is it the police or a jury that decide your guilt (or lack thereof)? Once we have determined that the police may decide your fate, on the spot, why even make the ambulance call at all, simply let the officer explain that your "escape attempt", required his brave, deadly force, response and save "nature" the trouble, as well.
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The officer won't be explaining anything. The shooter killed him. There were dozens of eyewitnesses. The shooter is going to die anyways. The question is whether we let nature take it's course and let him die now, or spend millions of dollars before killing him at Huntsville Prison. I say don't waste the taxpayers' money.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
The story may have been updated since you posted it but my reading says the shooter is dead of gunshot wounds, police cannot or won't yet say if they are self inflicted.



I understand the sentiment but I cannot agree with aid personnel picking and choosing which emergencies to go to. I would rather they had armed guard (with well thought out ROE) than not go in at all. Not all people in "no-go" zones are criminals.
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When I was an environmental regulator I was a FR and you don't have a choice. ITs go or loose your job. The expectation is that you WILL show up and if you don't you are in for a fire storm like you cannot believe.

I always went and so did all of my comrades. In some cases the stuff we were dealing with was mor dangerous than any alledged shooters. WHich by the way never happened.
 
danarhea said:
The officer won't be explaining anything. The shooter killed him. There were dozens of eyewitnesses. The shooter is going to die anyways. The question is whether we let nature take it's course and let him die now, or spend millions of dollars before killing him at Huntsville Prison. I say don't waste the taxpayers' money.
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The OP is about NY, not likely to affect TX or our Huntsville prison at all. Your tax money is not even a factor. Trials are not waived simply because of dozens of eyewitnesses or the lack of them.
 
j-mac said:
No, ofcourse not...The firefighters have a job to do, and shouldn't have to be targets to some crazy person with a gun firing at them. On the other hand, it is also equally as wrong in my opinion for anti gun people to jump on every instance of violence, not 5 minutes after it happens, to rail against the overwhelming majority of responsible gun owners right to own their weapons.
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Odd, but I didn't see anti-gun people jumping in demanding no more 'guns' but rather let 'em burn right wingers who drag all kinds stories of areas firefighters don't go in- highly doubtful- when the place in question is a rather nice upstate smaller town, no cesspool of hate, and 95% of the people there are all look alike to me.

Last report the gunman killed himself afterwards and is a convicted killer William Spengler, aged 62.

So the let em burn crowd along with the cesspools of humanity ranters are way off base and rather tacky. Not to mention awfully premature as apparently they had no information but the headline and their own bias...

THAT was my point, see, my hat is off... :)
 
The shooter should have never been released from prison. He used a hammer to kill his grandmother.
Time to reexamine societies mechanisms for identifying threats.
 
danarhea said:
Looks like this shooter got away. What kind of ********er opens fire on first responders who are attempting to save lives? We need a new kind of death penalty - Execution by slow torture...... Sorry, I don't really mean that. I am just ranting here.

Article is here.
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I'd rather just sentence the loser to 120 years of heavy labor. Spending the rest of his days beneath the earth's crust, swinging a pick axe, would be akin to torture, and we'd also be getting some use out of him at the same time.
 
danarhea said:
That wasn't my point. My point is that we are going to spend millions of dollars saving his life, and then putting him through a trial, then caring for him in prison, when we are eventually going to be putting him to death anyways. I say we should save the tax payers the money, let nature take it's course, and let him die now. Either way, he is going to die. Why spend MY tax money on him when the outcome is going to end up being the exact same thing?
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Because everybody has a right to the same process, whether they murdered a bus-load of nuns or stopped a dozen Allah-praising suicide bombers with their bare hands. That's one of the characteristics of a civilized nation.

Personally, I'm glad the United States is a civilized nation -- aren't you?
 
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