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Thread: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

  1. #91
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Have you no heart? I say feed the scum to the poor starving lions!
    as long as PETA would sign off on it its a go with me!!

  2. #92
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep. Liberal justice (plea deals, probation and parole), cost savings for courts
    Those things have very little to do with "liberal" justice and very much to do with system-level congestion/overcrowding and budgetary concerns.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #93
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Those things have very little to do with "liberal" justice and very much to do with system-level congestion/overcrowding and budgetary concerns.
    Really? How many citizens, if asked, would honestly prefer to support deadbeats on the dole than to permanently lock up carreer criminals? We largely have a judicial system of 1st time = warning, 2nd time = stern warning, 3rd time = fine/probation, 4th time = bigger fine and minimal jail time, 5th time = some time in prison and 6th time = long time in prison. Of course, these "times" are based only on actual convictions, many crimes go unsolved, possibly even undetected/unreported; so multiply the conviction "times" by the number of offenses not resulting in arrest and conviction, and you may begin to see my point.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 12-25-12 at 01:12 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Really? How many citizens, if asked, would honestly prefer to support deadbeats on the dole than to permanently lock up carreer criminals?
    That's all well and good, but the decisions regarding plea deals, probation and parole are not made by the average citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    We largely have a judicial system of 1st time = warning, 2nd time = stern warning, 3rd time = fine/probation, 4th time = bigger fine and minimal jail time, 5th time = some time in prison and 6th time = long time in prison.
    That depends on what part of the justice system you're talking about, and what kind of crime you're talking about. The criminal justice system has largely been politicized, and many times the end result is far harsher than is in fact productive.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Of course, these "times" are based only on actual convictions, many crimes go unsolved, possibly even undetected/unreported; so multiply the conviction "times" by the number of offenses not resulting in arrest and conviction, and you may begin to see my point.
    Multiply by the unknowable number? Um, okay.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #95
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Everyone has an excuse for everything. Don't feed me that you're too attached to the ghetto because you have friends and/or family living there and then complain about living there. You say there's a sense of "community". I assume it's that "community" spirit and love for your homies in the ghetto with you that makes the ghetto such a safe and happy place to live.
    I didn't say there was a sense of community. I said that THEY said that. And there are plenty of people here where I live who would do much better, since there are really no jobs and not everyone wants to be a farmer, if they moved. But they are attached to their families and will not. Here's a suggestion: Go work in the projects for a couple of years. Then maybe you won't be entirely clueless. Everyone is not like you. And not everyone has the same values you have. And here's a flash: You aren't going to make them be like you or share your values.

    BTW: If you add and subtract like you read, you can't be very prosperous!
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    That's all well and good, but the decisions regarding plea deals, probation and parole are not made by the average citizen.
    Indeed, but public policy is made by our elected representatives and is thus subject to change.



    That depends on what part of the justice system you're talking about, and what kind of crime you're talking about. The criminal justice system has largely been politicized, and many times the end result is far harsher than is in fact productive.
    Maybe, but it is still very rare for cases to go to trial regardless of type or level. As for vast variation in sentences, for even the same crime, that is a fact I will not attempt to dispute; that too, requires justice sytem/law changes.

    Multiply by the unknowable number? Um, okay.
    The statistics are available for reports vs. convictions (solve rate) and vary considerably from fairly good for murder 1 to very poor for property crime, but you are correct in that one must simply guess at the not reported rate.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    I didn't say there was a sense of community. I said that THEY said that. And there are plenty of people here where I live who would do much better, since there are really no jobs and not everyone wants to be a farmer, if they moved. But they are attached to their families and will not. Here's a suggestion: Go work in the projects for a couple of years. Then maybe you won't be entirely clueless. Everyone is not like you. And not everyone has the same values you have. And here's a flash: You aren't going to make them be like you or share your values.

    BTW: If you add and subtract like you read, you can't be very prosperous!
    First off, I never said YOU said there was a sense of community. My statement was directed towards anyone who chooses to stay there and still fusses about how bad it is. I grew up some of my years in the slums of Baltimore. I hated it like many do. However, instead of complaining about it, I put in extra effort to get ahead in school. That's how I got scholarships for undergrad and an employer who payed for my grad school based on my overachieving as an undergrad. I know what that crap life is like and I know how to get out of it. I have made my way from the projects to a $600,000+ condo. Unfortunately, the majority whine about their situation when they could actually do something about it if they tried worth a darn. Their lack of values is precisely why they don't get anywhere.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  8. #98
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    First off, I never said YOU said there was a sense of community. My statement was directed towards anyone who chooses to stay there and still fusses about how bad it is. I grew up some of my years in the slums of Baltimore. I hated it like many do. However, instead of complaining about it, I put in extra effort to get ahead in school. That's how I got scholarships for undergrad and an employer who payed for my grad school based on my overachieving as an undergrad. I know what that crap life is like and I know how to get out of it. I have made my way from the projects to a $600,000+ condo. Unfortunately, the majority whine about their situation when they could actually do something about it if they tried worth a darn. Their lack of values is precisely why they don't get anywhere.


    Here is what you wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Everyone has an excuse for everything. Don't feed me that you're too attached to the ghetto because you have friends and/or family living there and then complain about living there. You say there's a sense of "community". I assume it's that "community" spirit and love for your homies in the ghetto with you that makes the ghetto such a safe and happy place to live.

    So now your memory is as bad as your math an readng skills. LOL. Convene your discussion with someone else. You have no credibility with me.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  9. #99
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Here is what you wrote:

    So now your memory is as bad as your math an readng skills. LOL. Convene your discussion with someone else. You have no credibility with me.
    I guess you didn't know "you" can be used in the third-person:

    You - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Generic you - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  10. #100
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    Re: Firefighters Shot Dead at Upstate NY Fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I guess you didn't know "you" can be used in the third-person:

    You - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Generic you - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Then, perhaps you should have opted for clarity and said, 'they.' You did not. So now in addition to not reading, adding correctly, or expressing yourself correctly, your thinking is completely muddled. Try again. This one was an epic fail!
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

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