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North Korea confirms arrest of US citizen

I agree. I went to China in 2002 with a group that was well approved by both the US and China. The one thing I missed getting a pic of was a very large placard by the sidewalk which had multiple, multiple of those circles with a slash through it and a picture behind each one. It is even illegal to spit on the sidewalk there. Of course when you think that there are 13 million people in such a small area, it would be a major health hazard you could understand it. But our bus driver almost hit a car and then almost had apoplexy. I have posted somewhere, maybe not on this forum, that the Chinese only think in terms of crime and punishment. I felt VERY safe while I was there. But I would not have wanted to get accused of a crime. If you are going to places like that don't go alone.

China is not North Korea, China welcomes US citizens and the Chinese authorities regularly overlook minor infractions that otherwise Chinese citizens would pay a "toll" for. China is certainly interesting but hardly (and presently) North Korea.
 
There are restrictions sure but American citizens are allowed to visit North Korea, and strict rules however in the state iteself.


No thats not true. American cizitens at one point, then they were allowed to visit only during the Mass games, now they can visit anytime
Visit anytime! North Korea lifts restrictions on U.S. tourists | CNN Travel


Thats not ture


Im not going to "marvel" i simply think its a very interesting state.

Then what's stopping you from going to a country were 70% of the population eats grass?

Go, please - I'm sure you will enjoy the pain and misery (that they won't show you).
 
Then what's stopping you from going to a country were 70% of the population eats grass?
Financial reasons, college...


Go, please - I'm sure you will enjoy the pain and misery (that they won't show you).
Im sure they wont show me that.

It seems like you think i support the DPRK and their system of government i think. I dont, i simply think the DPRK is a very interesting country, and a country in which many people cannot say they have visited.
 
There are still restrictions, the same restrictions that have been in place since the Korean War ended.

You would have a better shot at winning the lotto than you would getting into North Korea legally.

Sure I would love to see a true authoritarian state, and personality cult myself, however only for educational purposes -- NOT to marvel at their sinister cult....

Inside North Korea - YouTube

Inside North Korea by an American Tourist - Part 1 of 4 HD (TRAIN PORTION) - YouTube

Americans can get in, but they have to know people and specifically, know which people to bribe.
 
I plan on traveling to North Korea sometime :mrgreen:
I think it would be risky (yes), but interesting.

I think you have a 50-50 chance (or better, depending upon the political climate) of getting kidnapped and held for ransom.
 
Has Duncan Hunter come to his rescue yet?
 
Then what's stopping you from going to a country were 70% of the population eats grass?

Go, please - I'm sure you will enjoy the pain and misery (that they won't show you).

why would traveling to NK require support for the regime?
 
why would traveling to NK require support for the regime?

You have to pretend to be supportive of the regime. They take you on a tour where they make you bring flowers to Kim Ill Sung and Kim Jong Ill's statues and you are required to bow. You are also not allowed to call Kim Ill Sung, Kim Jong Ill or Kim Jong Un by their direct names. You must always say.. Great General Kim Jong Ill...ect..ect.. You must also never say anything critical of the country, its leaders or any of the high ranking officials. You can not take pictures of any of the run down cities, only the sights they specifically take you to. And when you take pictures, you can not cut out any part of any of the leaders. If your taking a picture of a statue, you have to take a picture of the complete statue and not cut any of it out. These are just some of many of the restrictive rules tourists are subjected to while in N.Korea.
 
I'm not sure how lip-service would translate to actual support



You have to pretend to be supportive of the regime. They take you on a tour where they make you bring flowers to Kim Ill Sung and Kim Jong Ill's statues and you are required to bow. You are also not allowed to call Kim Ill Sung, Kim Jong Ill or Kim Jong Un by their direct names. You must always say.. Great General Kim Jong Ill...ect..ect.. You must also never say anything critical of the country, its leaders or any of the high ranking officials. You can not take pictures of any of the run down cities, only the sights they specifically take you to. And when you take pictures, you can not cut out any part of any of the leaders. If your taking a picture of a statue, you have to take a picture of the complete statue and not cut any of it out. These are just some of many of the restrictive rules tourists are subjected to while in N.Korea.
 
I'm not sure how lip-service would translate to actual support

There is not much difference between pretending to support and actually supporting them in their eyes. If you don't show support, pretending to do so or not, you are arrested. Its not like the US where you have a choice or not.
 
There is not much difference between pretending to support and actually supporting them in their eyes. If you don't show support, pretending to do so or not, you are arrested. Its not like the US where you have a choice or not.

Lol. Never mind
 
You have to pretend to be supportive of the regime. They take you on a tour where they make you bring flowers to Kim Ill Sung and Kim Jong Ill's statues and you are required to bow. You are also not allowed to call Kim Ill Sung, Kim Jong Ill or Kim Jong Un by their direct names. You must always say.. Great General Kim Jong Ill...ect..ect.. You must also never say anything critical of the country, its leaders or any of the high ranking officials. You can not take pictures of any of the run down cities, only the sights they specifically take you to. And when you take pictures, you can not cut out any part of any of the leaders. If your taking a picture of a statue, you have to take a picture of the complete statue and not cut any of it out. These are just some of many of the restrictive rules tourists are subjected to while in N.Korea.

I might just go for some of that if i could go visit their unicorn hole. of course i would be very disappointed if it was a sheep with a horn glued to it's head. Damned circus people wouldn't give me my money back on that one. NK has to be more honest than the circus, right?
 
I might just go for some of that if i could go visit their unicorn hole. of course i would be very disappointed if it was a sheep with a horn glued to it's head. Damned circus people wouldn't give me my money back on that one. NK has to be more honest than the circus, right?

What they are not telling you is the unicorn is actually kim jong un's shadow while bending over and turtle heading it. Kim Jong Un: "Hey guys, look, I'm a unicorn!"
 
What they are not telling you is the unicorn is actually kim jong un's shadow while bending over and turtle heading it. Kim Jong Un: "Hey guys, look, I'm a unicorn!"

Is his shadow purple with sparkles on it's ass? Because if it is i know some people who would love to see him at an american convention.
 
I might just go for some of that if i could go visit their unicorn hole. of course i would be very disappointed if it was a sheep with a horn glued to it's head. Damned circus people wouldn't give me my money back on that one. NK has to be more honest than the circus, right?

No, actually no they're not more honest than a circus.

Remember North Koreans believe Kim Jong Il is basically "Jesus" and his father, Kim Il-Sung is basically God. Remember North Koreans believe Kim Jong-Il invented the hamburger and could regularly shoot a perfect round of golf, among other insane accusations the typical North Korean is fed by the government owned media.

North Korea is the definition of a cult of personality... You do as you're told and believe what the state tells you and if you don't then you and your family will be murdered or locked in anyone of their numerous prison camps.

There is a reason why there is a DMZ littered with land mines - and it's not to keep people out - it's to keep people in. People are forced to live in North Korea - they don't choose to live in North Korea.

North Koreans are brainwashed to believe that they are the pinnacle of the world and the most advanced nation on earth - while every other nation is starving and wants North Koreas resources....

Of course when you visit (which is nearly impossible) you have to pretend you believe all of it despite the fact it is all a bunch of BS.
 
What they are not telling you is the unicorn is actually kim jong un's shadow while bending over and turtle heading it. Kim Jong Un: "Hey guys, look, I'm a unicorn!"

Believe it or not Kim Jong-Un was educated in Switzerland and lived a total "western" lifestyle - so he damn well knows everything the North Koreans feed their people is a bunch of nonsense and outright lies... It's difficult for me to imagine how a kid with such knowledge who knows the truth could lie to his own people. He damn well knows North Korea is a crap hole yet continues his fathers (and grandfathers) lies.

Here he is when he was 13-14 years old.

2009071700569_0.jpg


Here is the original class photo..

article-2077506-0F3B8C8400000578-90_634x385.jpg


So how does one go from a normal kid to a sociopathic dictator?
 
NOf course when you visit (which is nearly impossible) you have to pretend you believe all of it despite the fact it is all a bunch of BS.

from my understanding it's not as hard as you keep claiming, and evidence has been provided to confirm this. Secondly, I'm still not seeing the great sin in playing lip service to the demands of a culture during travel, regardless of how backwards it actually is.


You know, the whole Rome thing

PS it's hilarious that some of you guys are getting irate over someone saying they want to travel to NK. Seriously, lay off the internet outrage
 
No, actually no they're not more honest than a circus.

Remember North Koreans believe Kim Jong Il is basically "Jesus" and his father, Kim Il-Sung is basically God. Remember North Koreans believe Kim Jong-Il invented the hamburger and could regularly shoot a perfect round of golf, among other insane accusations the typical North Korean is fed by the government owned media.

North Korea is the definition of a cult of personality... You do as you're told and believe what the state tells you and if you don't then you and your family will be murdered or locked in anyone of their numerous prison camps.

There is a reason why there is a DMZ littered with land mines - and it's not to keep people out - it's to keep people in. People are forced to live in North Korea - they don't choose to live in North Korea.

North Koreans are brainwashed to believe that they are the pinnacle of the world and the most advanced nation on earth - while every other nation is starving and wants North Koreas resources....

Of course when you visit (which is nearly impossible) you have to pretend you believe all of it despite the fact it is all a bunch of BS.


GWBush explained it all when he said they're a land of evil-doers and then he forgot to invade them, but I suppose it's OK because he invaded everybody else, except Iran. He just say they was evil, he didn't say they had any OIL. NK don't got politicians like we has here, don't ya know? Everylthing on the shoulders o' just one boss, unlike the US of A that had like Dick Cheney telling his boy George when to crap etc. That over the shoulder guidance is missing in them evil-doer places. That crook A. Q. Khan, from Pakistan, helped them develop their atomic bomb and GWBush sure punished him by making him a hero in Pakistan and then allying with OBL's benefactor, again Pakistan, to right the world and smite them evil-doers. Where's good help when it's needed, eh?
 
from my understanding it's not as hard as you keep claiming, and evidence has been provided to confirm this. Secondly, I'm still not seeing the great sin in playing lip service to the demands of a culture during travel, regardless of how backwards it actually is.


You know, the whole Rome thing

PS it's hilarious that some of you guys are getting irate over someone saying they want to travel to NK. Seriously, lay off the internet outrage

I don't care about what others do.

I wouldn't mind visiting North Korea, however I would have a serious problem with the: "When in Rome live like a Roman" thing.

It is extremely hard to get into North Korea, and those who do get in do not have "free movement" they are constantly guarded. So it's not exactly like they can check into a hotel and choose to go about as they wish. They eat when they're told to, they go out when they're told to - they go where they're told to. It's pretty much a tour, yet you have a tour guide with you 24-7 who decides what you do and when you do it, and if you have a problem with that they will boot you out of the country in a nanosecond because they don't want you there in the first place.

If I went to North Korea I would want to see the prison camps and the rural areas - which they would never show you. What they do is give you a propaganda tour of the "privileged" areas which are nothing but rewards for the people who play by the rules while the majority of North Koreans are starving...

Not to mention they continually degrade the "west" or the "Yankees" as they call us when you visit. They'll show you downed planes from the Korean War and be like: "we shot that Yankee down, as you can see here is his bloody weak military clothing" as-if killing someone is good.
 
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I don't care about what others do.

well, when we consider your incessant complaining about people merely denoting a desire to visit NK we can conclude that as clearly "not true"

I wouldn't mind visiting North Korea, however I would have a serious problem with the: "When in Rome live like a Roman" thing.

It sort of comes with traveling, especially if you tend to go someplace more exotic than the international village at the Epcot Center

It is extremely hard to get into North Korea, and those who do get in do not have "free movement" they are constantly guarded.[/quoted]

it's difficult, but not the impossibility you keep claiming. In fact, the two biggest hurdles seem to be an interest in actually going and a willingness to pay a premium for ****ty accommodation and food. Bhutan used to be much the same way.

So it's not exactly like they can check into a hotel and choose to go about as they wish.

I'm not sure how that amounts to travel being impossible.


They eat when they're told to, they go out when they're told to - they go where they're told to. It's pretty much a tour, yet you have a tour guide with you 24-7 who decides what you do and when you do it, and if you have a problem with that they will boot you out of the country in a nanosecond because they don't want you there in the first place.

I am pretty sure no one here is confusing a vacation to NK with Burning Man, especially since everyone that mentioned an interest to travel there also noted it's insular nature, cultish fanaticism, and just general weirdness.

If I went to North Korea I would want to see the prison camps and the rural areas - which they would never show you. What they do is give you a propaganda tour of the "privileged" areas which are nothing but rewards for the people who play by the rules while the majority of North Koreans are starving...

Yes, we all know NK is a totalitarian **** hole-it has only been stressed EVERYTIME you decided to moan about something. But I'm pretty sure that's why people want to go there: because it's strange, alien, and about as far removed from our everyday lives as you could imagine
 
GWBush explained it all when he said they're a land of evil-doers and then he forgot to invade them, but I suppose it's OK because he invaded everybody else, except Iran. He just say they was evil, he didn't say they had any OIL. NK don't got politicians like we has here, don't ya know? Everylthing on the shoulders o' just one boss, unlike the US of A that had like Dick Cheney telling his boy George when to crap etc. That over the shoulder guidance is missing in them evil-doer places. That crook A. Q. Khan, from Pakistan, helped them develop their atomic bomb and GWBush sure punished him by making him a hero in Pakistan and then allying with OBL's benefactor, again Pakistan, to right the world and smite them evil-doers. Where's good help when it's needed, eh?

The problem is we cannot go to war with North Korea. For some reason China and Russia play North Koreas big brothers, and the US has absolutely no desire to go to war with China or Russia for obvious reasons.

I will say our diplomatic approach to North Korea via guys like Clinton and Carter pisses me off.. We've given North Korea so much aid NOT to develop nukes (or any weaponry) in exchange for aid, yet they turn around and build weaponry anyways.

It will only get worse from here. Our failing economy (currency) and Chinas growing (yet manipulated) economy (currency) does nothing more than empower North Korea, allowing North Korea to do whatever it pleases, because we're stuck kissing their big bros arse (China).

It's geopolitics at its finest.

IMO, I don't think China would do anything if North Korea was liberated by force. They'd be mad, but I don't see them taking the action into WWIII mode over a craphole like North Korea.
 
well, when we consider your incessant complaining about people merely denoting a desire to visit NK we can conclude that as clearly "not true"



It sort of comes with traveling, especially if you tend to go someplace more exotic than the international village at the Epcot Center

It is extremely hard to get into North Korea, and those who do get in do not have "free movement" they are constantly guarded.[/quoted]

it's difficult, but not the impossibility you keep claiming. In fact, the two biggest hurdles seem to be an interest in actually going and a willingness to pay a premium for ****ty accommodation and food. Bhutan used to be much the same way.



I'm not sure how that amounts to travel being impossible.




I am pretty sure no one here is confusing a vacation to NK with Burning Man, especially since everyone that mentioned an interest to travel there also noted it's insular nature, cultish fanaticism, and just general weirdness.



Yes, we all know NK is a totalitarian **** hole-it has only been stressed EVERYTIME you decided to moan about something. But I'm pretty sure that's why people want to go there: because it's strange, alien, and about as far removed from our everyday lives as you could imagine


Apparently you have a problem with me stating facts about North Korea.

I could care less where people go. Hell, even I said it would be an interesting visit.

All I'm saying is that a visit to North Korea would be useless because it would be a propaganda tour. They won't show you the real North Korea. It would be like going to "The Loop" in Chicago and not seeing the rest of the city, only by guards aka tour guides.
 
Apparently you have a problem with me stating facts about North Korea.

actually, I have a problem with your need to define an interest in traveling to NK with support for the regime and it's policy.

See: http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...firms-arrest-us-citizen-3.html#post1061290720

Also, I am unsure how you could come to the conclusion I am trying to protect NK's image when I have already called it a totalitarianism **** hole.


I could care less where people go. Hell, even I said it would be an interesting visit.

Yet, your activity in this thread clearly shows you do care, and based on some rather bizarre assumptions that have no basis in reality





All I'm saying is that a visit to North Korea would be useless because it would be a propaganda tour.

No~!!! And all this time I was planning to snort meth from the dear leaders cleavage. Yes, we all know that, and such was even stressed every time someone noted an interest in traveling there. Which is why your accusations of such amounting to support for the regime seem so freaking bizarre and divorced from anything called reality


They won't show you the real North Korea.

I find this truly shocking ...

It would be like going to "The Loop" in Chicago and not seeing the rest of the city, only by guards aka tour guides.

I don't believe it ...
 
China is not North Korea, China welcomes US citizens and the Chinese authorities regularly overlook minor infractions that otherwise Chinese citizens would pay a "toll" for. China is certainly interesting but hardly (and presently) North Korea.

And in your vast experience, how long did you spend there?
 
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