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NRA Newtown response [W:818]

Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:
Can you imagine how safe and excellent our schools would if if the Federal Government stopped spending so much money on keeping lazy people lazy, and instead focused those resources on protecting and bettering our children !!!!!
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So you want the Feds to take control of education? Interesting conservatism.

You actually had no useful repsonse, but "oh no, a Libbo criticized the NRA. Better get out a knee jerk!"

You'd think the NRA would want to help fight mental illnesses that cause people to do things that make them look bad. But since when has thought been the strongsuit of special interest groups...
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:
The continued decline of our society into "progressivism" may yield results which you agree with. It also has a dark side. Really dark.
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Sorry to burst your completely broken hypothesis bubble but:


You may now continue with "the world is going to hell in a handbasket... because of progressives" rants based on "feelings" rather than facts.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

i think having armed cops in school would be a good idea. these killers are cowards so maybe if they knew there were cops ready with guns in schools they would not do this. we also need more police around schools imo, people shouldnt be able to just go in thats rediculous.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

cpwill said:
A) the officer was outside
B) the officer actually did get a shot off - apparently he missed
C) I agree. There should be a minimum of two.


Meanwhile, given that Conneticut and Aurora's restrictive gun laws apparently weren't much help in deterring homicidal psychos, I'm not terribly impressed with the argument that the problem can be solved by disarming the sheepdogs. Nothing is going to be a panacea - but we keep armed responders in our Courthouses, major public buildings, and around the President 24/7 - because we recognize that that makes these things safer. It's time we made our children safer.



:doh Weak response. The vast majority of those positions are administrative - the growth in administrative positions is something that has been occurring across the board and at all levels of education.

Even in relatively small-government Texas the growth looks like this:

Staffing_TeacherAdminEnrollGrowth460W.png



Non-teaching staff is administrative. They are handling the administration of that school.

However, the point remains. We are hiring lots of folks whom we probably don't really need, but who don't have as their primary focus the education of children. Let us make some of those hirees veterans who are trained First Responders; and who in the mean time can assist in the library or whatever.
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Ooookay. I'm happy you are a qualified expert on what schools do and don't need in order to educate the future workforce of our country in a global economy. Do you realize that even with this school shooting, elementary school aged children across this nation are statistically far safer at school than they are in their own homes? Are you going to put a resource officer in every home in the country? Look it up. See if I'm wrong.

This reactionary nonsense you are advocating does not make any sense when it comes to the evidence. Historically, there have been so few school shootings at elementary schools compared to the number of children in the country, but if you compare that to the number of accidental deaths and injuries of children at home...well I'm pretty sure your confirmation bias at this point has made reality irrelevant.
 
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Re: NRA Newtown response

cpwill said:
And frankly, they would love doing it. For lots of the guys who did time in the infantry, the job options seem to be A) Cop B) low-end manual labor. Giving them a C) protect children from psycho's would be an option many of them would be thrilled to get.
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I'm sorry but the idea to guard our schools with armed war "veterans" is positively the absolute worst idea I have ever heard in my life .If you don't know why I certainly can't explain it to you. It is bad in so many ways it isn't funny.

The whole idea that more guns in school is the answer is insane. We want our children to be safe without armed guards of dubios safety value. Their safety is too high a cost for protecting the rights of a few mass murderers to have the finest killing machines in the world. The madness needs to stop somewhere.

The conservative case for an assault weapons ban - Los Angeles Times
 
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Re: NRA Newtown response

teachix4jesus said:
i think having armed cops in school would be a good idea. these killers are cowards so maybe if they knew there were cops ready with guns in schools they would not do this. we also need more police around schools imo, people shouldnt be able to just go in thats rediculous.
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You missed a pretty obvious fact. Most mass shooters kill themselves. Do you really think they are going to be deterred by an armed police presence when they go into the situation planning to kill themselves?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

iguanaman said:
I'm sorry but the idea to guard our schools with armed war "veterans" is positively the absolute worst idea I have ever heard in my life .If you don't know why I certainly can't explain it to you. It is bad in so many ways it isn't funny.
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yeah its far better that there be no one at a school who can fight back against an active shooter because the anti gun extremists love stories of massacres that they can use to try to deprive conservative gun owners of their rights

after all, when the active shooter is killed before he can slay more than a few people, the anti gun nuts have no story and the news media has nothing to use to fuel the public's emotions against the NRA
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

CriticalThought said:
You missed a pretty obvious fact. Most mass shooters kill themselves. Do you really think they are going to be deterred by an armed police presence when they go into the situation planning to kill themselves?
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maybe but at least the cops would have a chance to kill or detain them once they find somebody who shows up with a gun on campus
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

CriticalThought said:
You missed a pretty obvious fact. Most mass shooters kill themselves. Do you really think they are going to be deterred by an armed police presence when they go into the situation planning to kill themselves?
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YOU MISS THE POINT-an armed police office will usually cause them to die before they kill LOTS of people

its like saying a Kamikaze pilot was not deterred by the fact that Sailors with automatic cannons and quad fifty triple a batteries were trying to kill him. the Kamikazes were deterred from KILLING OUR SAILORS when our SAILORs blew the kamikazes up before they could crash into our ships

now that is REAL DETERRENCE-killing the enemy before he can kill you or lots of your friends
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

teachix4jesus said:
maybe but at least the cops would have a chance to kill or detain them once they find somebody who shows up with a gun on campus
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CT confuses deterrence in terms of preventing the guy from showing up versus killing him before he shoots lots of innocents

However, since almost every active shooter has struck in GUN FREE ZONES, I suspect "hard targets" would be avoided by those cowards
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
YOU MISS THE POINT-an armed police office will usually cause them to die before they kill LOTS of people

its like saying a Kamikaze pilot was not deterred by the fact that Sailors with automatic cannons and quad fifty triple a batteries were trying to kill him. the Kamikazes were deterred from KILLING OUR SAILORS when our SAILORs blew the kamikazes up before they could crash into our ships

now that is REAL DETERRENCE-killing the enemy before he can kill you or lots of your friends
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Columbine had an armed security guard and I think he even took shots at them and Virginia Tech had it's own swat team I do believe.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
CT confuses deterrence in terms of preventing the guy from showing up versus killing him before he shoots lots of innocents

However, since almost every active shooter has struck in GUN FREE ZONES, I suspect "hard targets" would be avoided by those cowards
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Is that your vision for America? A series of "hard targets" and "nowhere" land in between? It sounds like the Apocalypse to me. Is that what you are waiting for?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

iguanaman said:
Is that your vision for America? A series of "hard targets" and "nowhere" land in between? It sounds like the Apocalypse to me. Is that what you are waiting for?
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we know what your vision is- a welfare socialist dictatorship where no one but the state and the criminals are armed and the rest of us are beholden on our government masters for "safety"

sheep in a pen is what you want.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

poweRob said:
Columbine had an armed security guard and I think he even took shots at them and Virginia Tech had it's own swat team I do believe.
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yeah VT did-it took them EIGHT minutes to get to the scene. the guy was killing several people a minute. There is no doubt that if the teacher-who sacrificed himself to keep the killer out of a room while his students escaped through windows, had a handgun he could have killed the schmuck and saved some lives

EIGHT MINUTES
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
YOU MISS THE POINT-an armed police office will usually cause them to die before they kill LOTS of people
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Unless the perp kills him, takes his gun and kills some more with it. The shooter has the element of surprise, could know the guards habits etc.
Not to mention the danger of the guards gun being snatched by a student. It's all bad and ALL avoidable.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

teachix4jesus said:
maybe but at least the cops would have a chance to kill or detain them once they find somebody who shows up with a gun on campus
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As I have noted before, there was a Resource officer at Columbine High School who exchanged fire with the shooters and it did no good. He was not able to stop them. A Resource Officer typically carries a small side arm, whereas school shooters typically use assault weapons. Resource Officers are usually outgunned. Furthermore, a drawn out gun battle in the halls of a school is likely to cause additional deaths due to crossfire. That is why police typically respond to these kinds of situations with a SWAT team that uses precision to bring down the suspects quickly and efficiently.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

iguanaman said:
Unless the perp kills him, takes his gun and kills some more with it. The shooter has the element of surprise, could know the guards habits etc.
Not to mention the danger of the guards gun being snatched by a student. It's all bad and ALL avoidable.
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yeah its better to have victim disarmament zones. they have been so successful

those killers see the no gun signs and they just throw their weapons away
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Crosscheck said:
Well since you came at me with that kind of attitude.

As a survivor in a bloody head-on collison that resulted in a fatality I wished we had stricter regulations about people crossing the white line.
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You know that is a terrible analogy because there is not someone with you holding the other side of the white line until you purchase it. It did not even make sense to write. At the point of sale you have an opportunity to collect the necessary information. All points of gun sales are covered by a person, not all points where you can cross over the white line are covered by a person. So yes we can do something.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Fenton said:
Nope, still oblivious and still responding in emotional nonsensical platitudes and suppositions. You realize he took his own life when a police officer responded right ? That he had enough ammo plus shotgun in his car and most likely the determination to continue shooting innocent teachers and children.

I don't live in the movies and if anyone is caught up in a fantasy it's you who've apparently used your years of criminology experience and knowledge to ascertain the exact motives of a killer who's so unbalanced emotionally he's chosen mass homicide as a solution to his problems.

Yep, you've nailed down every psycho killer as a highly trained Special Forces Commando who's first thought after shooing away imaginary flying purple monkeys is to perform a recon of the perimeter and locate and identify possible counter forces. And you don't trust MY reasoning or abilities ?

My reasoning and/or abilities are just fine and a armed law abiding populace is a polite and well protected populace but we have to deal with nonsense from the likes of you as you rattle of hypothetical scenario's with out the slightest concept of what it takes to lawfully own, carry or use a firearm.

Your reasoning is to have the PSYCHO ARMED, and everyone else cowering and waiting to eat a bullet because you're scared of a firearm or don't possess the training or the courage to take it upon yourself to protect your self or the lives of your family.

That's your problem and you need to understand that your cowardice doesn't equate to a disarmed society.
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Wow, you sure beat the heck out of that straw man. I bet he don't get up for days. Any time you would like to respond to my points with an actual counter point I may respond. otherwise have fun with your scarecrow.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
yeah its better to have victim disarmament zones. they have been so successful

those killers see the no gun signs and they just throw their weapons away
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Good for gun sales, not so much for reducing the number of homicides with guns. Gun fanatic logic - if you have a problem with rats, get bigger and faster rats.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Deuce said:
I also love the facebook meme going around about hiring vets to guard the schools. Hey it will solve the veteran unemployment problem and protect our children! Yeah, because war veterans are known for being such a stable bunch, right? Let's give them a gun and put them around noisy, bratty children every single day!
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What say you to the fact that I personally knew of at least 4 School Resource Officers for the police department who are combat veterans, including one who was in the guard, deployed, returned, and went back to his school as the school resource officer.....??

I think you are being a bit judgemental all over. Frankly, Im rather offended by your implication that because the media tells you of a few cases of PTSD that every veteran seems to have mental stability problems....

The VAST majority of returning troops have no mental stability problems at all.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Caine said:
What say you to the fact that I personally knew of at least 4 School Resource Officers for the police department who are combat veterans, including one who was in the guard, deployed, returned, and went back to his school as the school resource officer.....??

I think you are being a bit judgemental all over. Frankly, Im rather offended by your implication that because the media tells you of a few cases of PTSD that every veteran seems to have mental stability problems....

The VAST majority of returning troops have no mental stability problems at all.
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It only takes one.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

CriticalThought said:
It only takes one.
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It only takes one owner of a dog to be crazy for me to pin dog owners as likely to go crazy....


We can play this ignorant ass game all ****ing day.


So now both deuce and CriticalThought are on the list of people who don't trust combat veterans to be sane based on a few CNN specials..... who else?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

poweRob said:
Columbine had an armed security guard and I think he even took shots at them
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That is correct and after engaging one of the shooters in a gunfight, he helped organize the evacuation out of the school, saving many lives. Men and Women who were children (well, minors) at that school are alive today because Columbine had an armed First Responder on-scene.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Caine said:
What say you to the fact that I personally knew of at least 4 School Resource Officers for the police department who are combat veterans, including one who was in the guard, deployed, returned, and went back to his school as the school resource officer.....??

I think you are being a bit judgemental all over. Frankly, Im rather offended by your implication that because the media tells you of a few cases of PTSD that every veteran seems to have mental stability problems....

The VAST majority of returning troops have no mental stability problems at all.
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The hilarious thing is, they think we can all turn in our own guns, because the police will protect us from criminal elements.

:lol: Apparently they don't know that police units are heavily disproportionately made up of....



... Veterans :lamo :mrgreen:
 
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