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NRA Newtown response [W:818]

Re: NRA Newtown response

That's not it at all.
A teacher seeking a CCW permit, is more likely to be trained than your average teacher.

If you think that they should have official training, before being allowed to carry on campus, I'd be on board with that.
Make it voluntary.

Perhaps. So long as it is holstered on their body and NEVER is off their person. And I mean NEVER... as long as they are on campus. Any gun put down will find itself in kids hands. Even in a lock-box. Kids break into their schools all the time and no lockbox will not keep them out of prying.
 
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Re: NRA Newtown response

Perhaps. So long as it is holstered on their body and NEVER is off their person. And I mean NEVER... as long as they are on campus. Any gun ut down will find itself in kids hands. Even in a lock-box. Kids break into their schools all the time and no lockbox will keep them out of prying.

Never off their person or a lockbox, would be fine.
It can entirely voluntary, but the teachers should report to the presiding principle of the school.
That should be mandatory.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

They've already gone though all that being retired Police Officers and Marines.

No. There is a major difference being a trained Resource Officer for a school and being a former Police Officer or Marine. You may want to do a bit more research on the job before you assume anyone with security training can do it.

Gun Control doesn't work. The Justice Department under Clinton commissioned the University of PA to do a study. The conclusion is beyond refute.

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/research/aw_final2004.pdf

Nothing is beyond refute. However, I do agree that more gun control is probably not going to solve anything. Likewise, I don't think more guns are going to solve anything. Both solutions are baseless and stupid.

Guns are just a scapegoat for emotional reactionaries who want to take away Individual Rights. It's a mob tactic.

And yet that is what you are doing. You want to increase POLICE presence in schools across the country, when it has been found that does little to increase overall security and generally leads to abuses of power.

Columbine High School had a Resource Officer. How much did that help?

You are emotionally reacting. Cool down and recognize that you need to THINK through these decisions instead of acting in reaction. Otherwise you are no better than those you believe are trying to take away your gun rights.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I'm not sure how choosing an option that could create a vast number of unintended consequences is supposed to solve the problem. Usually solving a problem does not involve creating more problems.

Which until the Connecticut shooting and subsequent gun debate were all government jobs that conservatives wanted to cut to reduce the size of the government and deficit but which have now apparantly become vitally important to national security.

I think you need to check your figures.

The above is all nonsense. No facts. No links. Nothing.

As if "unintended consequenses" is not one huge result of knee-jerk legislation !
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

No. There is a major difference being a trained Resource Officer for a school and being a former Police Officer or Marine. You may want to do a bit more research on the job before you assume anyone with security training can do it.



Nothing is beyond refute. However, I do agree that more gun control is probably not going to solve anything. Likewise, I don't think more guns are going to solve anything. Both solutions are baseless and stupid.



And yet that is what you are doing. You want to increase POLICE presence in schools across the country, when it has been found that does little to increase overall security and generally leads to abuses of power.

Columbine High School had a Resource Officer. How much did that help?

You are emotionally reacting. Cool down and recognize that you need to THINK through these decisions instead of acting in reaction. Otherwise you are no better than those you believe are trying to take away your gun rights.

Sorry. More "because I say so", and I see too much nonsense again. Bronson was much more accurate, with more insight, than you showed.

I suggest you study the concept of "fire prevention". It does not stop every fire. Just as an armed security entity inside each school (Columbine was not on the inside ... look it up), fire prevention does not stop every fire. But the results are tangible when one compares before and after numbers.
 
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Re: NRA Newtown response

Your attack on the NRA is text book knee jerk anti gun nonsense. As if they had ANYTHING to do with some lunatic on a killing spree.

Your lack of prior NRA threads just reinforces my assertion that it's politics that motivates you, not a sincere concern over how to prevent these types of attacks from happening again.

Liberals are good about supporting initiatives that DON'T work or don't have any tangible outcome, it's not about results it's about the intentions.

For every disgusting remark made about the Tea Party or lie concocted about Conservative positions or Hyperbolic insults and trumped up accusations about the previous President you guys are really good at exposing your true character and proving time and time again that to be a die hard liberal one must first remove all pretense of integrity. That's not hyperbole that's truth.

You quit counting dead American soldiers right after 2008, the media who's "objective" stopped covering some no name know nothing bitch who used her dead soldier son to gain attention and popularity, you ignore the massive deficit spending and a sinking economy under a incompetent President who's responsible for a shrinking labor force and a record number of people dependent on hand outs.....

And you still blame Bush..Unbelievable.

You ignore a obvious cover-up involving our dead Ambassador ( if it was Bush you guys would have impeached him buy now ) and lay claim to a GDP that's increasing solely because of massive Govt expenditures.

No more nonsense about Halliburton who actually received their first "no bid contract" under Clinton's administration in his Kosovo redirect or blood for oil threads as you weigh a soldiers blood depending on the Political position of the current administration.


So if I don't believe your "sincerity", just know I have a good reason not to.

You are not debating me. You are debating what you see is some static liberal that you've conjured up on whole and you slap the label on whomever doesn't agree with you and think you got the world pegged. I don't fit into your neat little box. If you don't have the time to debate the points brought up by a specific person, then don't expect the person you are talking to to take you seriously because with these black and white prewritten left/right liberal/conservative talking points, you are showing that you aren't taking them seriously at all.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

NRA Newtown response: National program to place armed security in schools

LaPierre in part blamed mass shootings on "vicious, violent video games" such as "Bulletstorm," "Grand Theft Auto," Mortal Kombat" and "Splatterhouse." He also reached back in time to place blame on movies like "American Psycho" and "Natural Born Killers" for portraying "life as a joke and murder as a way of life."​

He went on to say that congress should put armed officers in every school in America. Who'd a thunk that a lobby for gun manufacturing comes up with the solution that we need to sell more guns? What a shocker.

Anywhoo... I find it interesting that he chose to put a stupidity rift on this issue between his lobbying for the gun manufacturing industry and the video game, movie and music industries. He made it appear as "Guns? it's not gu.... LOOK OVER THERE!"

Ugg, pathetic.

Both sides make me sick.

One rushes to blame guns and now the NRA rushes to ****ing blame video games and movies.

****'em both.

Its **** like this that makes it clear that while I don't agree with most of those fighting the battle of "gun control", I don't buy that the NRA is some protectors of the constitution. They're no different than the other side...they just give a crap about the rights that suit them politically.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Sorry. More "because I say so", and I see too much nonsense again. Bronson was much more accurate, with more insight, than you showed.

So basically you didn't like what I had to say. You don't need to apologize. You are entitled to your opinion. As far as accuracy, you are a poor judge given that you based your assessment of my accuracy entirely on how you felt about what I said rather than whether it was factually true.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

So basically you didn't like what I had to say. You don't need to apologize. You are entitled to your opinion. As far as accuracy, you are a poor judge given that you based your assessment of my accuracy entirely on how you felt about what I said rather than whether it was factually true.

LOL ....... try again.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

We are a sick society.

I don't buy this for a second.

Violent game and porn usage is rampant across America, but mass gun violence is not.

Utah has high gun ownership and one of the highest uses of porn in America. When was the last time we saw mass shooting there?

The problem is our mental healthcare issues. Look at every single major mass gun shooting in the past 20 years. Virtually all of them are done by mentally unstable people.

If we are a Sick Society, it is because we fail to address those who need mental help.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Ugg, pathetic.

Both sides make me sick.

One rushes to blame guns and now the NRA rushes to ****ing blame video games and movies.

****'em both.

Its **** like this that makes it clear that while I don't agree with most of those fighting the battle of "gun control", I don't buy that the NRA is some protectors of the constitution. They're no different than the other side...they just give a crap about the rights that suit them politically.

So what is different from the 50's and 60's to now ? The guns ?

I don't think so.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

You got one massive flaw there. There are countries without the "no gun" laws, who in fact have lots of guns, but have uber-lower gun crime than the U.S. If you cut off every man's penis, you could claim birth control worked too. But that is not birth control as we will have to craft such. Just as Japan is not a model we will achieve.

It ain't the guns.

Show us the other wealthy countries with no gun laws that have a higher incidence of gun deaths?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

The above is all nonsense. No facts. No links. Nothing.

I used to post links. But then I learned that the confirmation bias of posters on this forum inhibited them from accepting any evidence or information that did not confirm what they already believed. As such, no matter how much evidence I would post on any given topic, it could never and would never meet the burden of proof established by whatever individual I was debating. Rather, I find it easier to assert the facts and leave it to those who are actually capable of challenging their confirmation bias to attend to checking the facts themselves. However, I find that very few even take the time to see if the evidence refutes what I had to say, and I don't see you being an exception to the case.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I'm going to enjoy watching conservative gun nuts argue that the government needs to spend $8 billion a year putting police in every school in the country while at the same time arguing for "smaller government" and "deficit reduction".


again, such a posts proves that your desire for more gun restrictions is to hassle the NRA not restrict criminals. I support armed teachers and administrators and getting rid of gun free zones
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I don't buy this for a second.

Violent game and porn usage is rampant across America, but mass gun violence is not.

Utah has high gun ownership and one of the highest uses of porn in America. When was the last time we saw mass shooting there?

The problem is our mental healthcare issues. Look at every single major mass gun shooting in the past 20 years. Virtually all of them are done by mentally unstable people.

If we are a Sick Society, it is because we fail to address those who need mental help.

Really ? Did not the Aurora shooter have a shrink, who reported deep concerns ? Was not Lanza noted to have problems ? Been to see shrinks ? From a family of uber-means ? Who was denied access there ? Who was not "addressed" within the scope of legitimate foresight ?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Show us the other wealthy countries with no gun laws that have a higher incidence of gun deaths?

what a silly post. there is no country on earth that is either free of guns or free of gun laws
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I used to post links. But then I learned that the confirmation bias of posters on this forum inhibited them from accepting any evidence or information that did not confirm what they already believed. As such, no matter how much evidence I would post on any given topic, it could never and would never meet the burden of proof established by whatever individual I was debating. Rather, I find it easier to assert the facts and leave it to those who are actually capable of challenging their confirmation bias to attend to checking the facts themselves. However, I find that very few even take the time to see if the evidence refutes what I had to say, and I don't see you being an exception to the case.

And I see you as a lazy poster.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Never off their person or a lockbox, would be fine.
It can entirely voluntary, but the teachers should report to the presiding principle of the school.
That should be mandatory.
I say on them at all times. I remember kids being very, very sneaky and very, very craft during my school years. They did many things under the teachers nose RIGHT when they let their guard down. Lockbox maybe in the main faculty locked 4 times over by doors and such. So the principle could distribute to those who feel up to the task if the "crazy" alarm goes off.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

LOL ....... try again.

I'm not sure why you are laughing. I just called you a poor judge of accuracy based on your assessment. I would not consider that a laughing matter. Your response indicates that you had nothing to disprove my argument.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Show us the other wealthy countries with no gun laws that have a higher incidence of gun deaths?

False analogy. The contest is not to see who has more. It is to compare us with similar countries with regard to gun ownership and crime.

Look at Switzerland, for starters. Explain that.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

And I see you as a lazy poster.

You are the one posting one line responses and who attacked my arguments without so much as a shred of evidence to the contrary. I think your actions speak much louder than your words.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I'm not sure why you are laughing. I just called you a poor judge of accuracy based on your assessment. I would not consider that a laughing matter. Your response indicates that you had nothing to disprove my argument.

LOL <<<<< see that ? It says that I am laughing at your post. I think you not quite accurate. to put it mildly :)
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Really ? Did not the Aurora shooter have a shrink, who reported deep concerns ? Was not Lanza noted to have problems ? Been to see shrinks ? From a family of uber-means ? Who was denied access there ? Who was not "addressed" within the scope of legitimate foresight ?

Mental Health in America only goes as far as the families of those getting help until they pose a direct threat in which you can have them committed. Many families don't take that next necessary step. Are these people getting some help? Yes. Are they getting the help they really need as well as removing them as a threat from the rest of the population? Clearly No.

It is patently wrong to blame violent games, porn or guns for the problem here. If those were the problem, we should be seeing far more mass violence by mentally stable people. We simply do not.

The problem is mental healthcare in America. Fix that and you fix most of the mass shooting crimes.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

You are the one posting one line responses and who attacked my arguments without so much as a shred of evidence to the contrary. I think your actions speak much louder than your words.

Read my earlier posts. Chock full of links and arguments. You were debunked before you even posted.
 
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