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Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    True, there is no statistical support for the proposition that the AWB reduced gun homicides. OTOH, the results are probably skewed for several reasons:

    1. Gun manufacturers ramped up AW manufacture and import prior to the ban going into effect;
    2. That contributed to the already large stockpile of existing AWs;
    3. The ban didn't last long enough to see a meaningful reduction in the stockpile.
    4: The ban didnt ban anything as the manufacturers modified their designs to comply with the law and continued selling them.
    Last edited by H. Lee White; 12-28-12 at 12:16 PM.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    4: The ban didnt ban anything as the manufacturers modified their designs to comply with the and continued selling them.
    So to get the type of efficacy you seem to desire in solid legislation you would also be supportive of modifications in the law to keep pace with those of manufacturers?
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    So... there isn't enough data to form a reasoned, sound argument for stricter gun laws.
    I'd also add that most suggestions for stricter gun laws cannot be shown to prevent the acts that they are poroposed in response to.
    It seems to have achieved just that in Australia in the narrow goal of preventing more mass murders.

    And by your own criteria, those were the events that the Australian law was proposed in response to. There, you got exactly what you seem to want.
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It seems to have achieved just that in Australia in the narrow goal of preventing more mass murders.

    And by your own criteria, those were the events that the Australian law was proposed in response to. There, you got exactly what you seem to want.
    Except the murder rate and the violent crime rate have jumped 300 %
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    4: The ban didnt ban anything as the manufacturers modified their designs to comply with the law and continued selling them.
    5. There was no reduction in the "stockpile"

    6. "assualt weapons" account for just 3% of murders in the United States.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Except the murder rate and the violent crime rate have jumped 300 %
    I have seen some present statistics on that and I have also read criticisms of those same statistics.

    But rather than get into that, I think the challenge of White and others should be looked at. They want a law which will prevent mass killing incidents like this latest one. That is the same thing Australia wanted. And that is what they got. It was extremely successful in that goal.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...rthur/1778519/

    The results are hard to argue with. According to a Harvard University study, 13 gun massacres (in which four or more people died) occurred in the 18 years before the law was enacted. In the 16 years since there has been none. Zero.

    The overall firearm homicide rate dropped from 0.43 per 100,000 in the seven years before the law to 0.25 in the seven years after. By 2009, the rate had dropped further, to just 0.1 per 100,000, or one per million.

    In the USA, the 2009 firearm homicide rate was 3.3 per 100,000, some 33 times higher than Australia's.
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you cannot require a criminal to apply for a license or register a gun since that violates his right against incrimination. so such schemes cannot even apply to the people most likely to misuse a gun. its illegal to fire a gun in a theater unless you are being attacked-just as its legal to yell fire if there is indeed a fire

    don't confuse use restrictions with bans on possession
    Do you know what percentage of gun violence / murders annually in the USA are committed as a "crime of passion" not by criminals but by registered gun users? Is there any correlation to crimes of passion gun incidents and non-registered guns?
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    Do you know what percentage of gun violence / murders annually in the USA are committed as a "crime of passion" not by criminals but by registered gun users?
    No. Do you?

    Is there any correlation to crimes of passion gun incidents and non-registered guns?
    The vast majority of guns in the US are not registered, and so it stands to reason that the vast majoirty of gun-related "crimes of passion" involve unregistered guns.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    No. Do you?
    I asked the question because I do not know.

    The vast majority of guns in the US are not registered, and so it stands to reason that the vast majoirty of gun-related "crimes of passion" involve unregistered guns.
    So if the vast majority of guns were registered how would that increase crime? I think it would reduce crime especially if gun owners are required to pass some tests in order to be licensed. Are you against driver's licences too? Are you against hunting licenses etc.?
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    I asked the question because I do not know.


    So if the vast majority of guns were registered how would that increase crime? I think it would reduce crime especially if gun owners are required to pass some tests in order to be licensed. Are you against driver's licences too? Are you against hunting licenses etc.?
    You now equate privileges and user fees to prerequisites for rights. I offer this simple "rights" compromise; if you are denied the right to keep and bear arms then you are also denied the right to vote.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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