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Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the difference is that unlike crack there will always be a steady stream of guns even if the nonleo civilian market is banned. every year the us military "loses" thousands of real machine rifles and civilian LEO agencies lose a bunch of weapons-both issued weapons and confiscated ones
    I have never liked the argument that we should not make something illegal because then people will break the law.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I have never liked the argument that we should not make something illegal because then people will break the law.
    if it causes the potential of massive resistance than I think that is a good reason not to do it

    But what I was noting is that there will always be a supply of black market guns from the legitimate sales to the government

    there is no such supply for contraband narcotics

    I also note no one who supports restrictions on normal capacity magazines (a "high capacity magazine is one that holds more rounds than the normally supplied magazine for the gun-not one that is more than ten rounds as the anti gunners would want us to believe) can demonstrate any evidence that the bans would decrease crime. ten years of the Clinton law failed to create any such evidence

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if it causes the potential of massive resistance than I think that is a good reason not to do it

    But what I was noting is that there will always be a supply of black market guns from the legitimate sales to the government

    there is no such supply for contraband narcotics

    I also note no one who supports restrictions on normal capacity magazines (a "high capacity magazine is one that holds more rounds than the normally supplied magazine for the gun-not one that is more than ten rounds as the anti gunners would want us to believe) can demonstrate any evidence that the bans would decrease crime. ten years of the Clinton law failed to create any such evidence
    Massive resistance is something that gets talked about much more than ever happens. People will claim that they will resist, right up until they think about the comforts they will be giving up.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually those are largely regulated in modern Japan. The key issue is time. Given enough time with restrictive gun laws, and a culture will change. And note to be clear, I do not favor such a solution for the US.
    So then what is YOUR solution? It's funny how people talk about "restricting" our second amendment rights, but then say they don't really mean it. Makes one wonder.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    So then what is YOUR solution? It's funny how people talk about "restricting" our second amendment rights, but then say they don't really mean it. Makes one wonder.
    My solution is to do nothing. I am perfectly OK with things as they are.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    My solution is to do nothing. I am perfectly OK with things as they are.
    I think we need to do something about our mental health issues here in United States. I don't think incidents such as Sandy Hook are related to guns or the second amendment but related to the stigma that people with mental health issues have to face, not to mention lack of appropriate treatment for them.

    Another problem I see is how a lot of younger people glamorize violence. Just listen to the words of any gangsta rap song.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    You know there are millions of us who are pro-gun control but not based on faith. I also think the vast majority are in the world of reality and know that total bans are a fantasy that will never, ever happen.

    Banning AR type weapons and large magazines is not total gun control and people are not asking for that - I've not seen one national politician come out with that stance. How do you account for the low crime and murder rate in NYC since strict gun registration was enacted? With 9 million or so residents it seems that very few of my neighbors own guns yet we're safe and the murder rate here continues to decrease dramatically, how come?
    The thing is that banning things only creates a black market for those items, and the only people that will be able to get them are criminals. So it's kind of silly actually.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think we need to do something about our mental health issues here in United States. I don't think incidents such as Sandy Hook are related to guns or the second amendment but related to the stigma that people with mental health issues have to face, not to mention lack of appropriate treatment for them.

    Another problem I see is how a lot of younger people glamorize violence. Just listen to the words of any gangsta rap song.
    Less than 100 people where killed this year from mass shootings. It is not exactly an epidemic. U.S. mass shootings in 2012 - The Washington Post
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Less than 100 people where killed this year from mass shootings. It is not exactly an epidemic. U.S. mass shootings in 2012 - The Washington Post
    I'm aware of that. As a matter of fact, I posted almost the same thing already, but don't think for ONE minute that NOTHING will be done. SOMETHING is going to happen as a result of this latest shooting, and it's probably going to be more bans.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Badly worded. Let me try this: liberals who support second amendment rights(which is IIRC about 40 % of self identified liberals) are consistent with the basic liberal position of being in favor of civil rights. The basic conservative position(ie, held by most conservatives, not derived from conservative ideology) tends to be restrictive on rights, except the second amendment.

    It is funny however that for those who base their positions on ideology(that is, they from a basic liberal or conservative philosophy), and not on what the liberal or conservative position on an issue is supposed to be, both liberal and conservative tend to arrive at a broad, consistent civil rights position. Where inconsistent positions enter in is when one simply adopts positions based on whether they are "liberal" or "conservative". I find it especially amusing that in the wake of the latest tragedy, the base conservative position(meaning shared by an at least plurality of conservatives) is a big government position of adding guards and creating a national database, while the base liberal position is one of taking away rights. The irony in both is amazing.
    Gotcha. That makes more sense. And it is a rather funny thing when it comes to positions over ideology. It's an issue present in a lot of debates sadly

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