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Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

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    NRA Newtown response [W:818]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well Redress might have a point-some have noted that if Liberals interpreted the second amendment like they do say the right to counsel, the government would be giving everyone an M16 and all the ammo they wanted!

    Sanford Levinson (Yale Law Journal, perhaps 1999 DNR) noted in "THE EMBARRASSING SECOND AMENDMENT" that he, as a liberal law professor (Texas I believe) was amazed how the left was so expansive in its interpretations of other constitutional rights but was so narrow in viewing the second amendment
    I guess that's my issue. Nailing down a definitive liberal r conservative ideology, let alone one definitive interpretation of it is difficult enough...not to mention the conflicting issues at times in forms if both and the potential differences between ideology and actual supported policy

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    NRA Newtown response [W:818]

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I do not see restrictions by individual states as being at all effective in doing much of anything simply do to the ease of moving around the country.
    The Hawaii / Maryland was was regarding the notion of individual states doing it and more highlighting the fact that an island State is likely to have an easier time having greater success than a State flanked by other adjacent States (which are also flanked by other adjacent states)

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    Re: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I guess that's my issue. Nailing down a definitive liberal r conservative ideology, let alone one definitive interpretation of it is difficult enough...not to mention the conflicting issues at times in forms if both and the potential differences between ideology and actual supported policy
    someone once noted the reason why gun issues never got much attention in law journals (we are talking 25 years ago) was

    Conservatives hate rights and Liberals hate guns

    of course the "right" is split between the law and order authoritarian wing and my wing-the libertarian lockean wing

    but I have always been amazed that those who claim they are for the "common man" and the poor are usually collectivists and that includes firepower

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    Re: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Da ****?

    You just spent time, rightfully, chiding him about broad stroke comments about liberal thought, and then come back with a sweeping comment about liberal ideology being more consistent than conservative ideology and broadly stating conservative ideology only cares about the 2nd amendment (if I'm reading that last part right). Seriously?
    Badly worded. Let me try this: liberals who support second amendment rights(which is IIRC about 40 % of self identified liberals) are consistent with the basic liberal position of being in favor of civil rights. The basic conservative position(ie, held by most conservatives, not derived from conservative ideology) tends to be restrictive on rights, except the second amendment.

    It is funny however that for those who base their positions on ideology(that is, they from a basic liberal or conservative philosophy), and not on what the liberal or conservative position on an issue is supposed to be, both liberal and conservative tend to arrive at a broad, consistent civil rights position. Where inconsistent positions enter in is when one simply adopts positions based on whether they are "liberal" or "conservative". I find it especially amusing that in the wake of the latest tragedy, the base conservative position(meaning shared by an at least plurality of conservatives) is a big government position of adding guards and creating a national database, while the base liberal position is one of taking away rights. The irony in both is amazing.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If I told you that Japanese living in the USA have a lower rate of gun violence than those in Japan what would that mean to you? and BTW japan has never had a FOURTH amendment and for centuries, anyone but a member of the proper caste who had a sword was killed if caught

    the FIVE weapons of Okinawan martial arts were based on the fact that subjects of Japan could not own real weapons

    so the staff (Bo) the sickle (Kama) the tool used for weeding (the Sai) the rice grinder (tonfa) and the rice flail (Nunchaku) became weapons
    Actually those are largely regulated in modern Japan. The key issue is time. Given enough time with restrictive gun laws, and a culture will change. And note to be clear, I do not favor such a solution for the US.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

    I think there is a big difference in saying police we already have should guard schools and being in favor of more government. INdeed, most of us libertarians believe that an essential and legitimate purpose of government is police guarding against violent crime.

    and many of us merely want to get rid of gun free zones meaning teachers who want to can carry and when my wife (who is at my son's private school constantly since she volunteers in the gift/book shop and chaperones field trips) is there she can bring her Sig into the school rather than locking it in the car as required

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually those are largely regulated in modern Japan. The key issue is time. Given enough time with restrictive gun laws, and a culture will change. And note to be clear, I do not favor such a solution for the US.
    Well we have had war on drugs for decades.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    someone once noted the reason why gun issues never got much attention in law journals (we are talking 25 years ago) was

    Conservatives hate rights and Liberals hate guns


    of course the "right" is split between the law and order authoritarian wing and my wing-the libertarian lockean wing

    but I have always been amazed that those who claim they are for the "common man" and the poor are usually collectivists and that includes firepower


    That is perfect,m and represents the humor I see in the issue.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Well we have had war on drugs for decades.
    Not quite the same thing. If we have to go into comparisons, I will have too much fun comparing how drug use and gun ownership are both to make the person feel better about themselves, and you don't want me to have that kind of fun.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #930
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not quite the same thing. If we have to go into comparisons, I will have too much fun comparing how drug use and gun ownership are both to make the person feel better about themselves, and you don't want me to have that kind of fun.
    the difference is that unlike crack there will always be a steady stream of guns even if the nonleo civilian market is banned. every year the us military "loses" thousands of real machine rifles and civilian LEO agencies lose a bunch of weapons-both issued weapons and confiscated ones

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