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Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

  1. #801
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm sure he'll answer 'general welfare'. Your counter is that it does no such thing, I presume.
    I want him to specifically cite the line in that section that he thinks authorizes such power since he constantly makes the general claim

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    Thank you for our post it is very insightful and I agree with you 100%. I wrote in a post in this thread that it's almost like the intense gun defenders are pointing a gun at you as they type - their posts mean to intimidate and to make you shut up - not to debate.
    Nice Hyperboyle


    You, or I or others can express a willingness to express an acceptance that Americans have a right to legally own and register guns - but for me that does not mean carte blanche or does it mean that I believe that certain guns and ammunition that are now legal should remain legal, i.e. AR 15 type weapons and magazine clips with more than 10 rounds.
    A shotgun with a full tube of oo buckshot or a .22LR with a tube that holds 19 rounds could potentially do the same damage as the AR at close range in a class room, are you prepared to outlaw these weapons as well?

    We all know that the shooter in Tucson was stopped trying to reload his weapon and had he not needed to reload even more people would have been killed or injured.
    Luckily the Batman killer used a 100 round clip as it jammed several times on him before he finally gave up. If he'd used the more dependable multiple 10 round clips his gun probably wouldnt have jammed & he'd have killed more. It doesnt take long to change a clip if you have any practice and most 100 round clips are called Jammomatics in the gun world. Let me also turn this around and say a person had multiple armed intruders trying to break into his house, A guy like you would force the law abiding citizen to keep reloading to fight these guys off instead of having say a 20 or 30 round clip to have even a prayer of defeating the intruders.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am still waiting for you to show me what part of the constitution was intended to give congress that power

    line and verse
    I did that this morning. To pretend otherwise is either being engaged in denial or is some sort of strange game playing where you can keep asking the same questions despite already having them clearly and forthrightly answered.
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I did that this morning.

    then it would be easy to repeat it here.

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    Student jakiejakester's Avatar
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so tell me-based on your rants about "Fox news" and the GOP is it fair to say that you push gun bans because you think it will harass or burden GOP voters or fox news viewers? or do you honestly believe that what you propose will actually impact those who premeditate murder more than say Republican NRA members

    and while you are at it what 2-3 issues causes you to be liberal

    what makes me adopt the libertarian conservative position

    is gun rights
    taxes
    and judges

    on some issues I guess I am liberal

    gay rights
    abortion
    drug legalization
    anti bible thumper
    I honestly believe that Fox News and many GOP politicians and pundits LIE regularly - all the time, distort the truth, use scare tactics to rabble rouse and I find it repugnant. I'm not saying that all Democratic politicians are guilt free of exactly the same thing but the Dems who do are not typical and are the exception to the rule. Fox News, Hannity, Rush, Beck and mainstream GOP politicians who lie are the rule not the exception.

    My point is wanting to legislate AR type weapons and magazines is not that it will prevent the awful from happening but it will, IMHO, reduce it from happening and that means it will save lives. I'm guessing that your counterpoint is that the same weapons will reduce the murders that these weapons and magazines stop murders. I think that the net effect of my point of view is more people alive and that's why I'm for it.

    I can't recall a string of news stories where civilians using AR weapons and magazines stopped murders but I sure can recall where they've destroyed so many lives.
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    then it would be easy to repeat it here.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...ntrol-119.html

    post 1185
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  7. #807
    Student jakiejakester's Avatar
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    Let me also turn this around and say a person had multiple armed intruders trying to break into his house, A guy like you would force the law abiding citizen to keep reloading to fight these guys off instead of having say a 20 or 30 round clip to have even a prayer of defeating the intruders.
    Show me regular instances where what you propose happened? It's an urban legend as far as I know. One instance is not enough - show me 20 times that it's happened - you know where multiple intruders with guns attacked someone in their home with the purpose of killing them and they were stopped by a homeowner with AR type weapons using 30 round clips?
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  8. #808
    Advisor Iron Yank's Avatar
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    I agree with you completely! You said it very well, thank you. It's very Fox News to use this approach and also very GOP. It started with Reagan who was famous for stating things that were untrue but said it over and over and over again until a lot of skeptics believed him and that is the approach Fox News uses and the approach that the GOP tried in the last election.
    This is total rubbish, Barak Obama is the biggest liar to ever take office, remember when he was trying to sell Obama care he told everyone over & over again that they would save 2,400$ a year but his own CBO determined this not to be true and that it was actually going to cost more. We also had this administration repeating the lie about the video, caused the sacking of the consulate in Libya Another example of what you are trying to accuse the other side of yet you ignore multiple examples of your own party doing it.

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    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    I honestly believe that Fox News and many GOP politicians and pundits LIE regularly - all the time, distort the truth, use scare tactics to rabble rouse and I find it repugnant. I'm not saying that all Democratic politicians are guilt free of exactly the same thing but the Dems who do are not typical and are the exception to the rule. Fox News, Hannity, Rush, Beck and mainstream GOP politicians who lie are the rule not the exception.

    My point is wanting to legislate AR type weapons and magazines is not that it will prevent the awful from happening but it will, IMHO, reduce it from happening and that means it will save lives. I'm guessing that your counterpoint is that the same weapons will reduce the murders that these weapons and magazines stop murders. I think that the net effect of my point of view is more people alive and that's why I'm for it.

    I can't recall a string of news stories where civilians using AR weapons and magazines stopped murders but I sure can recall where they've destroyed so many lives.
    well in the ten years the clinton gun ban was in place no one could find any positive benefits

    I guess its easy to dismiss or disparage rights you don't find valuable so you can pretend you are DOING SOMETHING even if there is absolutely no proof or empirical data backing you up

  10. #810
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yeah I saw that and I found the argument unconvincing. you merely stated that stuff that has no mention of small arms could be interpreted and expanded to allow regulation


    we could do the same for free speech, the practice of religion or what women wear in public


    (the general welfare would increase if women built like NFL linebackers didn't wear miniskirts and women with bad veins didn't wear clear hose or have bare legs!!)

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