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Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

  1. #791
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the tenth amendment prohibits registration
    I just read it .... again. It does nothing of the kind.
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I just read it .... again. It does nothing of the kind.
    well you 'd have to find that delegation of power to the federal government to make the claim you just did

    remind me where the power to register firearms was actually delegated to the federal government

    I don't recall you ever answering what line of Art 8, sec. 1 supported your desired forms of gun rights infringements. You merely cited that Article and section without further specificity

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    Why the Straw Man argument? Fox News does the same thing when they say "Some are saying" but what "some say" or your use of "many scholars" is meaningless unless or until the SCOTUS rule otherwise. It would be like my saying that "many scholars believe that gun ownership under the 2nd Amendment is meant only for a militia not private citizens." Many "scholars" say that too but it doesn't make them right, does it? Nor does it make your "scholars" right who agree with you, does it?
    Hey genius, in 1776 the militia was private citizens who gathered at a moments notice. Also which militia in historical terms in any country wasnt given the right to fight in a battle without arms? Why would it be put in the Constitution if it was just for Military personell in a militia that would armed regardless? Your argument makes no sense

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well you 'd have to find that delegation of power to the federal government to make the claim you just did

    remind me where the power to register firearms was actually delegated to the federal government

    I don't recall you ever answering what line of Art 8, sec. 1 supported your desired forms of gun rights infringements. You merely cited that Article and section without further specificity
    We went through this just this morning. You pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

    I just read the 10th again. It says nothing of what you claim.

    your tactic is rather predictable and rather hollow. It consists of two things:
    1- claiming that the Constitution does not give the Congress the powers that it indeed gives the Congress and have been upheld by the Supreme Court because you personally have ideological or political or personal or financial objections to them, and then
    2- invoking the 10th claiming that all other powers are reserved to the states and thus the powers that you deny but which others say are there are really not there no matter if the Supreme Court says so or not.

    YOu have taken the no true scotsman fallacy and simply applied it to what you do not like in the government.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-26-12 at 05:34 PM.
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We went through this just this morning. You pretending otherwise is simply disingenuous.

    I just read the 10th again. It says nothing of what you claim.
    what it says essentially is that powers not specifically delegated to the federal government remain for the people or the several states

    for the life of me I cannot find the power to register firearms delegated to the federal government

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what it says essentially is that powers not specifically delegated to the federal government remain for the people or the several states

    for the life of me I cannot find the power to register firearms delegated to the federal government
    it looks like you posted while I was editing --- here is what was missed

    your tactic is rather predictable and rather hollow. It consists of two things:
    1- claiming that the Constitution does not give the Congress the powers that it indeed gives the Congress and have been upheld by the Supreme Court because you personally have ideological or political or personal or financial objections to them, and then
    2- invoking the 10th claiming that all other powers are reserved to the states and thus the powers that you deny but which others say are there are really not there no matter if the Supreme Court says so or not.

    YOu have taken the no true scotsman fallacy and simply applied it to what you do not like in the government.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    it looks like you posted while I was editing --- here is what was missed

    your tactic is rather predictable and rather hollow. It consists of two things:
    1- claiming that the Constitution does not give the Congress the powers that it indeed gives the Congress and have been upheld by the Supreme Court because you personally have ideological or political or personal or financial objections to them, and then
    2- invoking the 10th claiming that all other powers are reserved to the states and thus the powers that you deny but which others say are there are really not there no matter if the Supreme Court says so or not.

    YOu have taken the no true scotsman fallacy and simply applied it to what you do not like in the government.
    I am still waiting for you to show me what part of the constitution was intended to give congress that power

    line and verse

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    it looks like you posted while I was editing --- here is what was missed

    your tactic is rather predictable and rather hollow. It consists of two things:
    1- claiming that the Constitution does not give the Congress the powers that it indeed gives the Congress and have been upheld by the Supreme Court because you personally have ideological or political or personal or financial objections to them, and then
    2- invoking the 10th claiming that all other powers are reserved to the states and thus the powers that you deny but which others say are there are really not there no matter if the Supreme Court says so or not.

    YOu have taken the no true scotsman fallacy and simply applied it to what you do not like in the government.
    I agree with you completely! You said it very well, thank you. It's very Fox News to use this approach and also very GOP. It started with Reagan who was famous for stating things that were untrue but said it over and over and over again until a lot of skeptics believed him and that is the approach Fox News uses and the approach that the GOP tried in the last election.
    “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am still waiting for you to show me what part of the constitution was intended to give congress that power

    line and verse
    I'm sure he'll answer 'general welfare'. Your counter is that it does no such thing, I presume.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by jakiejakester View Post
    I agree with you completely! You said it very well, thank you. It's very Fox News to use this approach and also very GOP. It started with Reagan who was famous for stating things that were untrue but said it over and over and over again until a lot of skeptics believed him and that is the approach Fox News uses and the approach that the GOP tried in the last election.
    so tell me-based on your rants about "Fox news" and the GOP is it fair to say that you push gun bans because you think it will harass or burden GOP voters or fox news viewers? or do you honestly believe that what you propose will actually impact those who premeditate murder more than say Republican NRA members

    and while you are at it what 2-3 issues causes you to be liberal

    what makes me adopt the libertarian conservative position

    is gun rights
    taxes
    and judges

    on some issues I guess I am liberal

    gay rights
    abortion
    drug legalization
    anti bible thumper

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