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Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

  1. #691
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Again, I am not against guns. I am not against owning guns for self protection, but that isn't the only reason people own them. They own them for sport and hunting as well.

    But to think arming more people and standing behind the NRA's response to this issue, is just absurd IMO. If it's ludicrous to blame guns, it is far more ignorant to blame video games and TV for killing people. Guns are not going to stop mass shootings, and again, the NRA is only proposing something to help children stay safe... not society as a whole.

    You have now moved far away from the original assertions that WE began discussing. These being the effectiveness of Holmes body armor and 'expecting' someone to 'counterattack' an assailant. I have not questioned your support of firearms as you have not taken a position until now.

    As to more guns, video games and TV these are valid opinions of YOURS. I have no issue with more guns if those who engage in ‘more’ are willing, capable and responsible. I am certainly against putting a gun in the hand of every teacher. Given the environment and enough time I could reasonably predict one after having a stressful day to go ‘unhinged’ and become an assailant. As to ‘guns are not going to stop mass shootings’, stop…probably not but there is evidence that they can reduce the victim count. In the end no amount of gun control will eliminate the harm that can be inflicted by a hardened heart or creative mind. Consider the fall out if Lanza had entered the school with a 16oz Lipton tea bottle filled with gasoline and a match. Sure fewer kids may have been killed but those who weren’t could have been seriously burned and what would the outrage be then?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    You have now moved far away from the original assertions that WE began discussing. These being the effectiveness of Holmes body armor and 'expecting' someone to 'counterattack' an assailant. I have not questioned your support of firearms as you have not taken a position until now.

    As to more guns, video games and TV these are valid opinions of YOURS. I have no issue with more guns if those who engage in ‘more’ are willing, capable and responsible. I am certainly against putting a gun in the hand of every teacher. Given the environment and enough time I could reasonably predict one after having a stressful day to go ‘unhinged’ and become an assailant. As to ‘guns are not going to stop mass shootings’, stop…probably not but there is evidence that they can reduce the victim count. In the end no amount of gun control will eliminate the harm that can be inflicted by a hardened heart or creative mind. Consider the fall out if Lanza had entered the school with a 16oz Lipton tea bottle filled with gasoline and a match. Sure fewer kids may have been killed but those who weren’t could have been seriously burned and what would the outrage be then?
    My argument reqarding Holmes or anybody else wearing armor is significant armor creates an obstacle to any security guard. My argument is simple and seems like common sense to me. Example, Jeanne Assam shot somebody, not wearing armor and her bullets didn't kill him. They were both ducking and hiding, and taking careful aim at each other. It's not a quick shot, close range, simple, whatever.... given the any kind of gun somebody can walk in with combined with armor, it seems like a difficult task to get a kill shot before the mass shooter kills a significant amount of people.

    Jeanne Assam shoot the assailant more than once, and he killed himself. Armor is going to make getting a lethal shot in even harder.

    That is my point.


    As far as getting you everything Holmes was wearing, it isn't likely to be corroborated by every single source. To get all the facts, it will probably require the evidence being entered in the public trial.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    ...Jeanne Assam shoot the assailant more than once, and he killed himself. Armor is going to make getting a lethal shot in even harder.

    That is my point.
    Check that point:

    She was deemed a hero when on Dec. 9, 2007, she fired multiple shots and killed spree killer Matthew J. Murray. Murray killed four people and wounded five before Jeanne Assam, a volunteer security guard at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, shot and killed him. While some reports suggest Assam fired a shot that wounded him, prompting Murray to commit suicide, she vehemently contends that she delivered the fatal blow. Regardless, Jeanne Assam is credited with saving hundreds of lives that day
    New Life hero Jeanne Assam talks Connecticut school shooting, gun control - National US Headlines | Examiner.com

    Maybe these 'TV experts' disagree with Assam but I think the story of a person ON THE SCENE DOING THE SHOOTING is a bit more compelling...wouldn't you agree?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Check that point:


    New Life hero Jeanne Assam talks Connecticut school shooting, gun control - National US Headlines | Examiner.com

    Maybe these 'TV experts' disagree with Assam but I think the story of a person ON THE SCENE DOING THE SHOOTING is a bit more compelling...wouldn't you agree?
    The autopsy determined his own bullet took his life. Of course he didn't shoot himself in the head after he was dead, did he?

    And now, you're the one picking small things to argue on and moving the goal post. I argued why body armor and vests make a kill shot more difficult in a mass shooting, and that has been my point throughout.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
    There was armed guards at Combine and at Va. tech. Sounds to me like you are just regurgitating NRA talking points.
    VA tech is huge, it took the response team EIGHT MINUTES to come on scene. EIGHT MINUTES. which is why I favor students of LEGAL age and who have passed training requirements to be able to carry

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    The man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center died of a self-inflicted shotgun wound, police said Tuesday.


    Matthew Murray, 24, was struck multiple times by a security officer at New Life Church Sunday but died after firing a single shot at himself, the El Paso County Coroner's Office concluded after an autopsy.

    Police: Colorado church gunman's autopsy shows he died of self-inflicted | abc13.com

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    The autopsy determined his own bullet took his life. Of course he didn't shoot himself in the head after he was dead, did he?

    And now, you're the one picking small things to argue on and moving the goal post. I argued why body armor and vests make a kill shot more difficult in a mass shooting, and that has been my point throughout.

    true that is why I teach my students to put two in the body, one in the head and if they miss the head shoot for the groin. you hit dead center and the guy goes down even with armor (ever see a baseball catcher get hit by a foul tip in the cup) and if you shoot low you break either leg.

    however, I spend 95% of my time practicing shots to the throat and head for the reason you state. another reason to have standard capacity magazines in your gun-15-17 at least.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    true that is why I teach my students to put two in the body, one in the head and if they miss the head shoot for the groin. you hit dead center and the guy goes down even with armor (ever see a baseball catcher get hit by a foul tip in the cup) and if you shoot low you break either leg.

    however, I spend 95% of my time practicing shots to the throat and head for the reason you state. another reason to have standard capacity magazines in your gun-15-17 at least.
    There is also ballistic armor for the groin, head, and neck to my knowledge...

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    There is also ballistic armor for the groin, head, and neck to my knowledge...
    yeah there is but the mobility of someone in all that stuff is pretty limited. and a 45 to the groin and face is going to really hurt-probably enough for me to close with the guy and put the gun in his mouth and blow his brains out or put a bullet in each arm or hand and then do whatever i feel like

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    And now, you're the one picking small things to argue on and moving the goal post. I argued why body armor and vests make a kill shot more difficult in a mass shooting, and that has been my point throughout.
    You were the one who inserted Assam into the discussion. I only made a curtsy search as I was unaware of the incident...thank you for providing me the correction... I have argued that based on photos, the Tactical Gear invoice AND the Blackhawk product description Holmes was NOT wearing body armor as you asserted and was reported. One cannot argue that 'body armor and vests make a kill shot more difficult in a mass shooting' when the shooter is NOT WEARING IT!
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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