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Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

  1. #671
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
    my point was where is the line? Do you have a line in mind? Is there a line for you?
    I'm pretty satisfied with the current lines...I know of no overly onerous gun laws generally. There are some state/municipal ones that I question but given that one has the ability to relocate I give them a pass.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
    I agree. Another citizen telling you its a or it is not a need is ludicrous. that being said there has to be a limit at some point. Do you need a shoulder fired air to air missile? A tank? Bazooka? etc.etc.

    Where is that line? Myself I think that AR-15 is on the permissible side.
    For me, the line is precisely where it is now. That already IS a limit.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Of course I know bullet proof vests are not that powerful, but I think you guys are overestimating what somebody like Holmes could have done... even if people were armed, and if he didn't tell authorities about his rigged apartment.
    We 'overestimate' what somebody like Holmes could have done? How so?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    We 'overestimate' what somebody like Holmes could have done? How so?
    I mean underestimate, and I explained why in my post. He obviously could have killed a lot more people, with his apartment being rigged. He was also wearing armor from head to toe, so good luck with the close range head shot argument.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Of course I know bullet proof vests are not that powerful, but I think you guys are overestimating what somebody like Holmes could have done... even if people were armed, and if he didn't tell authorities about his rigged apartment.

    As it has been mentioned before, there was shooting at a church. Jeanne Assam or something like like shot the shooter several times. He ended up killing several people before she encountered him, and it ended up his own bullet took his life.

    At close range a head shot isn't terribly difficult... try getting close to James Holmes and shooting him in the head. His head was protected as well.

    No, it's not as simple as you make it sound.
    Good grief. In Colorado Springs, as you note, the shooter was taken down by two shots from a female. He was down. No longer mobile. But you make it sound as though he chose when to stop the killing by taking his own life ! He was down for chrissakes !

    You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Holmes could have easily been taken down as well. He had a few hundred targets in front of him, all random. Had one of them been armed, they only had one target. First shot into his "body armor" would have knocked Holmes on his ass. If he gets up, he is likely to run out the door, or get knocked down again, if not blown away. Body armor is limited in what it can do, and you truly haven't a clue yet about anything you are arguing.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Good grief. In Colorado Springs, as you note, the shooter was taken down by two shots from a female. He was down. No longer mobile. But you make it sound as though he chose when to stop the killing by taking his own life ! He was down for chrissakes !

    You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Holmes could have easily been taken down as well. He had a few hundred targets in front of him, all random. Had one of them been armed, they only had one target. First shot into his "body armor" would have knocked Holmes on his ass. If he gets up, he is likely to run out the door, or get knocked down again, if not blown away. Body armor is limited in what it can do, and you truly haven't a clue yet about anything you are arguing.
    Holmes was on drugs prior to the shooting to avoid pain... and your comment reminds me of the woman you said we should teach our kids to throw themselves at mass shooters like Adam Lanza.

    If every adult was armed with a gun, and all just took aim at Holmes... as if they would all stick their neck out regardless of where his armor was or their position to him that would have saved every life. People would still be killed in that situation. There were teenage kids at that movie.

    I don't see how more guns is the answer. James Holmes shouldn't have been able to buy everything he did, his therapist should have done more, the products he bought to build bombs with should have set off some red flags somewhere. Adam Lanza should have been treated, and his doomsday prepper mother should not have showed him how to use a gun to begin with.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    And in Colorado Springs, that shooter still killed innocent people... again, it wasn't easy for the volunteer guard to get a head shot on him. He was down... IDK. The proof is that his own bullet killed him. Lanza's own bullet killed him, and he killed himself when he heard the first responders coming.

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I mean underestimate, and I explained why in my post. He obviously could have killed a lot more people, with his apartment being rigged. He was also wearing armor from head to toe, so good luck with the close range head shot argument.
    I don't see anyone 'underestimating'. Ultimately he did what he did and was not hindered by outside forces to limit his actions. As to his apartment, was this also due to assault weapons or handguns? As to the 'armor' from head to toe I'm sure you are aware that all these are rated to repell to a certain level. Do you have any source that would reaveal the level of protection this 'armor' would afford as I do not? I HAVE seen some speculation that it was a Blackhawk assault vest he wore (per invoice) which is merely a pocketed ammo vest and affords little bullet protection...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I don't see anyone 'underestimating'. Ultimately he did what he did and was not hindered by outside forces to limit his actions. As to his apartment, was this also due to assault weapons or handguns? As to the 'armor' from head to toe I'm sure you are aware that all these are rated to repell to a certain level. Do you have any source that would reaveal the level of protection this 'armor' would afford as I do not? I HAVE seen some speculation that it was a Blackhawk assault vest he wore (per invoice) which is merely a pocketed ammo vest and affords little bullet protection...
    Experts on TV said he was prepared to get into a showdown with officers, and that he was capable of doing it with the amount of weapons he had. He of course did not do it, and they continued to speculate why... why didn't he kill himself, etc.

    Why should I do your research for you? And why should I take your word that somebody could have easily killed him with a body shot?

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    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Niether both will be in a bad spot! Odds are both would be dead! The reason is and I am going by the newton shooting. This case to get a head shot off with one person has a 30 round clip to a ten round that a three to one advantage. Add in the body armor The odds are not in favor of the glock. Honestly, bith would be dead the only differance is one person had a gun and the other didnt. Plus add in confusion from a rapid fire weapon really I do not see a big advantage in having a gun or not. I am sure the keyboard commando's and DP snipers here will disagree but oh well
    yes.. both are in a bad spot.. gunfights are not very nice places to find yourself.

    I don't know the odds ... but I think a reasonable person, and professional oddsmakers, would put the odds of facing a rifle with your bare hands and angry words at about.. 100% you will die... much less if you had a gun to defend yourself with.

    I was in a handgun Vs battle rifle (real AK's) situation once upon a time....even have a lil citation and a shiny little bauble on my uniform to prove it.
    you argue that the odds of me dying were the same no matter if I was armed or unarmed....and I am entertained by such an argument... the guys with AK's, not so much.

    listen, I know you think what you say is true... but I would warn against projecting your own deficiencies on to other people.
    you don't trust yourself to be able to handle such a situation.. you know you can't personally fight a guy with a rifle... you know you can't score a head shot or stop him in any way.... you know you will be confused and unable to function under fire... you know a firearm would be a useless fixture in your hand.
    these are your truths, and that is fine.. .... but don't ever.. ever... believe other people share those deficiencies.

    I'm no Navy SEAL, Delta operator, or Recon Marine... i'm just an old retired Jarhead infantry man with good knowledge of firearms... there are, quite literally, millions and millions of folks like me out there... millions and millions who are better.... we have a new generation of combat vets who can handle themselves just fine in any combat scenario ( makes no bones about it, anytime shots are fired in anger, it's combat)
    and you know what, there are millions and millions more , who are civilians, who are just as capable of handling their **** as we are.

    you keep right on believing that good guys with guns are powerless to stop bad guys with guns.. I won't try change your mind.. if history and reality can't change your mind, I surely don't stand a chance.

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