Page 46 of 107 FirstFirst ... 3644454647485696 ... LastLast
Results 451 to 460 of 1067

Thread: NRA Newtown response [W:818]

  1. #451
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Good for gun sales, not so much for reducing the number of homicides with guns. Gun fanatic logic - if you have a problem with rats, get bigger and faster rats.
    Wrong all-together. If you have a problem with rats, go get cats.



    But I will remember that apparently you think of our combat veterans as big, fast, rats. An interesting insight into the left-wing mindset. Well done being a positive spokesman for your beliefs

  2. #452
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    As I have noted before, there was a Resource officer at Columbine High School who exchanged fire with the shooters and it did no good.
    On the contrary, that officer (a sherrifs' deputy) got into a gunfight that delayed the shooters for some time, allowing many students to escape, and then he organized the evacuation before SWAT came on-scene, allowing many more to escape. Students survived that day because Columbine had an armed first-responder on-scene.

    You seem to have the interesting notion that because he didn't Rambo-Style kill two shooters who were using home-made explosives with his pistol that he was ineffective. Apparently you do not consider saving childrens' lives to be a metric of success? Only dead bodies count as your metric?

    He was not able to stop them. A Resource Officer typically carries a small side arm, whereas school shooters typically use assault weapons. Resource Officers are usually outgunned.
    You will get no argument from me that armed first responders in a school should have biometric access to semi-automatic carbines, and that there should desireably be two so that they can operate as a buddy-team; or split up to have one handle the shooter while the other covers an evacuation of students.

    Furthermore, a drawn out gun battle in the halls of a school is likely to cause additional deaths due to crossfire.
    Actually it will cause fewer deaths because the shooter will be aiming at a trained responder rather than masses of children. It's not as if the shooter was going to be meditating in the middle of the hallway absent an armed responder - he's going to be firing into as many people as are available as rapidly as he can.

    That is why police typically respond to these kinds of situations with a SWAT team that uses precision to bring down the suspects quickly and efficiently.
    ...except that woops SWAT takes a while to show up and don't typically have intimate knowledge of the schools the way that shooters often do. If you want to argue that we should camp a SWAT team at each school....


    ....Wait a minute. SWAT isn't taking these guys out with hugs. I thought you people were against armed first responders? Which is it? Should we have armed responders taking these guys out? Or not? Is your argument really just that we should instead give active shooters a "head start" of however long it takes SWAT (assuming that there even is one) there and organized?

  3. #453
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Wrong all-together. If you have a problem with rats, go get cats.

    But I will remember that apparently you think of our combat veterans as big, fast, rats. An interesting insight into the left-wing mindset. Well done being a positive spokesman for your beliefs
    I have no beef with veterans, my son just completed 20 years in the Air Force. I was talking about guns. As US statistics show when compared with other rich countries, more guns do not lower gun deaths.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #454
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 08:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,125

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    It only takes one owner of a dog to be crazy for me to pin dog owners as likely to go crazy....


    We can play this ignorant ass game all ****ing day.


    So now both deuce and CriticalThought are on the list of people who don't trust combat veterans to be sane based on a few CNN specials..... who else?
    When it comes to allowing someone to be a Resource Officer, I don't trust anyone who hasn't gone through a formal mental health exam, background check, and full training of how to be a Resource Officer. Just assuming that combat veterans or retired police officers are qualified to be Resource Officers is ridiculous. If you are going to be given free license to walk around a school with a gun then there needs to be some serious scrutiny about your capacity to do so and you should be required to posses the specialized knowledge needed to perform that job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  5. #455
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 08:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,125

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    On the contrary, that officer (a sherrifs' deputy) got into a gunfight that delayed the shooters for some time, allowing many students to escape, and then he organized the evacuation before SWAT came on-scene, allowing many more to escape. Students survived that day because Columbine had an armed first-responder on-scene.
    That is not how I remember it. Could your provide some reference to support this assertion?

    Actually it will cause fewer deaths because the shooter will be aiming at a trained responder rather than masses of children. It's not as if the shooter was going to be meditating in the middle of the hallway absent an armed responder - he's going to be firing into as many people as are available as rapidly as he can.
    What is going to happen is they are going to give some untrained combat veteran a sidearm and he is going to shoot off like crazy when a mass shooter shows up and end up hitting children in classrooms through the walls as if he were off on some battlefield without having to care about civilians in the proximity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  6. #456
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    When it comes to allowing someone to be a Resource Officer, I don't trust anyone who hasn't gone through a formal mental health exam, background check, and full training of how to be a Resource Officer. Just assuming that combat veterans or retired police officers are qualified to be Resource Officers is ridiculous. If you are going to be given free license to walk around a school with a gun then there needs to be some serious scrutiny about your capacity to do so and you should be required to posses the specialized knowledge needed to perform that job.
    This is the problem with people like you.......

    You are too busy trying to show how awesome your ability to "Critically Think" is that you fail to realize that maybe.... just maybe...... the mention that retired police officers or combat veterans being interested in the job ISN'T THE FULL EXTENT OF THE IDEA BEHIND HIRING THEM INTO SUCH A ****ING POSITION!!!!!!!!!

    I don't think anyone here has claimed that no furthur evaluation or training would be needed........

    Jesus ****ing Christ you people take **** way too god damned literally around here.

    Use your brain.

    Personally I think this is just a cop out because you got called out on calling all combat vets crazy.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  7. #457
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That is not how I remember it. Could your provide some reference to support this assertion?



    What is going to happen is they are going to give some untrained combat veteran a sidearm and he is going to shoot off like crazy when a mass shooter shows up and end up hitting children in classrooms through the walls as if he were off on some battlefield without having to care about civilians in the proximity.
    Hmm...

    Schools must have changed Mr. Take Everything So Goddamn Literally....

    Because every time I have ever been in a school.... all the walls were SOLID FREAKING BRICK/CONCRETE/BLOCK...
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  8. #458
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That is not how I remember it. Could your provide some reference to support this assertion?
    Glad to do so

    .. [The Deputy] traded fire (that is, he drew fire) with Harris for an extended period of time, during which Harris’s gun jammed. The deputy and the backup he immediately called for exchanged fire with the shooters a second time and helped begin the evacuation of students, all before the SWAT teams and the rest of the cavalry arrived, and before Harris and Klebold killed themselves in the library. Harris and Klebold had an assault plan — a sloppy plan, but a plan nonetheless. They had dozens of IEDs, some of which detonated, others of which did not. And there were two of them. In this highly chaotic tactical environment, the deputy acted both bravely and prudently, and who knows how many lives he saved by engaging Harris...



    What is going to happen is they are going to give some untrained combat veteran a sidearm and he is going to shoot off like crazy when a mass shooter shows up and end up hitting children in classrooms through the walls as if he were off on some battlefield without having to care about civilians in the proximity.
    what? Firstly, we are pre-screening for training when we select combat veterans - these are people who have trained and deployed and carried weapons against the enemy, not 38 year old beer-gutters who think that they are rambo because they wear Army/Navy Surplus Store cammies to the gun show. Secondly, it's as easy as requiring an annual active-shooter-response recertification. No one has advocated putting un trained personell behind guns in schools - on the contrary, we are saying expand upon the current program that one-third of all schools in the United States ALREADY have of putting trained armed personnel inside the school.

    However, I notice that you are still unable to answer the point - which is that any trained first responder who draws the shooters' fire is by definition drawing that shooter away from his mission to maximize the civilian body-count and thus results in fewer casualties rather than more.

  9. #459
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    When it comes to allowing someone to be a Resource Officer, I don't trust anyone who hasn't gone through a formal mental health exam, background check, and full training of how to be a Resource Officer.
    Agreed full-heartedly, and I would add annual required training and re-certification to that list.

    Just assuming that combat veterans or retired police officers are qualified to be Resource Officers is ridiculous.
    No, they are simply a pool that has already established a level of training and ability to operate under stress that is significantly superior to the general populace. They've also (again, we are weeding out the problem children) demonstrated an ability to integrate with small teams in a security situation, and take the initiative in the defense others. They are also a pool whose skills (kill bad guys, protect good guys) leave them currently suffering from high unemployment, which means that this is an excellent chance for us to let one problem solve another.

    If you are going to be given free license to walk around a school with a gun then there needs to be some serious scrutiny about your capacity to do so and you should be required to posses the specialized knowledge needed to perform that job.
    No one has argued otherwise. Oh, except for this one guy who claimed that veterans were just big, ugly, fast, rats, and another who seemed to suggest that they were a bunch of psychotic nutcases who were going to go crazy and start slaughtering children. Some on the left, it seems, never matured beyond the vietnam-era chants of 'baby-killer'.

  10. #460
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: NRA Newtown response

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have no beef with veterans, my son just completed 20 years in the Air Force. I was talking about guns. As US statistics show when compared with other rich countries, more guns do not lower gun deaths.
    Yes, as the same statistics show, however, lower guns also do not lower violence. America's higher rates of violence are just as strong compared to other industrialized nations when you control for guns as when you don't.

    But we aren't trying to effect a society-wide-can't-we-all-hug-each-other solution here - such a solution would likely have nothing to do with guns, anyway, and much more to do with how we raise our children. We are simply trying to foment an effective response to very specific forms of violence that tend to take place in so-called "gun-free" zones.

Page 46 of 107 FirstFirst ... 3644454647485696 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •