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NRA Newtown response [W:818]

Re: NRA Newtown response

Dickieboy said:
You were the one who inserted Assam into the discussion. I only made a curtsy search as I was unaware of the incident and you provided no source. I guess I must research your points also... I have argued that based on photos, the Tactical Gear invoice AND the Blackhawk product description Holmes was NOT wearing body armor as you asserted and was reported. One cannot argue that 'body armor and vests make a kill shot more difficult in a mass shooting' when the shooter is NOT WEARING IT!
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And I posted a link showing you're claim she killed him was wrong... she initially believed she did, but the autopsy indicated he killed himself.

I am also not certain how you can argue body armor doesn't make a kill shot more difficult... even TD agrees with me. As for Holmes, there appears to be a debate on what he was and wasn't wearing. Again, that debate probably won't be put away until the trial.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
And I posted a link showing you're claim she killed him was wrong... she initially believed she did, but the autopsy indicated he killed himself.

I am also not certain how you can argue body armor doesn't make a kill shot more difficult... even TD agrees with me. As for Holmes, there appears to be a debate on what he was and wasn't wearing. Again, that debate probably won't be put away until the trial.
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we also know (me especially since I constantly train with John Benner who is a leading national authority on active shooters and trains response teams how to deal with them) that 90% of the active shooters, when even confronted with responses, folded up and croaked themselves. The loser in CT did a barrellobotomy the minute he heard the PO PO was coming. I wonder why these people sometimes have used body armor when they aren't really willing to fight
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
And I posted a link showing you're claim she killed him was wrong... she initially believed she did, but the autopsy indicated he killed himself.
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thx, check my edit...

I am also not certain how you can argue body armor doesn't make a kill shot more difficult... even TD agrees with me. As for Holmes, there appears to be a debate on what he was and wasn't wearing. Again, that debate probably won't be put away until the trial.
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Sorry, but did I not argue the same in #664?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
we also know (me especially since I constantly train with John Benner who is a leading national authority on active shooters and trains response teams how to deal with them) that 90% of the active shooters, when even confronted with responses, folded up and croaked themselves. The loser in CT did a barrellobotomy the minute he heard the PO PO was coming. I wonder why these people sometimes have used body armor when they aren't really willing to fight
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Holmes is still alive, which is the extremely shocking to most people.

Perhaps they wear it because it gives them a feeling of power or something...
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
we also know (me especially since I constantly train with John Benner who is a leading national authority on active shooters and trains response teams how to deal with them) that 90% of the active shooters, when even confronted with responses, folded up and croaked themselves. The loser in CT did a barrellobotomy the minute he heard the PO PO was coming. I wonder why these people sometimes have used body armor when they aren't really willing to fight
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They want to fight and kill as many as possible but they don't usually want to risk being caught. The two LA bank robbers were armed and armored up to the hilt but were also homicidal maniacs with no intention of serving time. When you hate life, you hate all of life, especially your own.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
Holmes is still alive, which is the extremely shocking to most people.

Perhaps they wear it because it gives them a feeling of power or something...
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Or perhaps they are role playing something they saw on TV or a video game...?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

grip said:
They want to fight and kill as many as possible but they don't usually want to risk being caught. The two LA bank robbers were armed and armored up to the hilt but were also homicidal maniacs with no intention of serving time. When you hate life, you hate all of life, especially your own.
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So the armor is there to possibly prolong the killing if necessary, in case the PO PO arrives sooner than expected...
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
So the armor is there to possibly prolong the killing if necessary, in case the PO PO arrives sooner than expected...
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Maybe true in some cases. the turd in CT croaked himself before the PO PO even appeared on scene. its too bad they kill themselves. I'd much rather have the family spend say about 6 hours with him and then all get pardons from the governor afterwards
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
So the armor is there to possibly prolong the killing if necessary, in case the PO PO arrives sooner than expected...
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I would think so, because if they're wearing armor and commit suicide after trying to kill a bunch of people they never intended to survive the ordeal.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
Maybe true in some cases. the turd in CT croaked himself before the PO PO even appeared on scene. its too bad they kill themselves. I'd much rather have the family spend say about 6 hours with him and then all get pardons from the governor afterwards
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Was he running out of ammo or something?

With Lanza, they say maybe he was angry about being committed. So I guess he knew he'd be committed if the police got to him...
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

grip said:
I would think so, because if they're wearing armor and commit suicide after trying to kill a bunch of people they never intended to survive the ordeal.
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true and what that means is any threat of punishment is irrelevant when dealing with these people since they won't be around to stand trial

when someone has conceded he is already dead the only way you "deter" him is to kill him or badly hurt him before he can kill you or others

that is something these anti gun nuts have never understood
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
Was he running out of ammo or something?

With Lanza, they say maybe he was angry about being committed. So I guess he knew he'd be committed if the police got to him...
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I guess that is what caused him to snap. too bad his mother didn't think about security for her weapons if she had someone who needed commitment around her.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
I guess that is what caused him to snap. too bad his mother didn't think about security for her weapons if she had someone who needed commitment around her.
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She taught him how to use her weapons... If he needed to be committed and was anti social, he probably should have never been taught how to handle a weapon to begin with.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
true and what that means is any threat of punishment is irrelevant when dealing with these people since they won't be around to stand trial

when someone has conceded he is already dead the only way you "deter" him is to kill him or badly hurt him before he can kill you or others

that is something these anti gun nuts have never understood
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The amount of hell these people are probably already going thru in their minds is more punishment than must of us have ever experienced. The shame is if they're committed to the deed I wish they'd only take themselves out and not other innocents. But that's the problem with mental illness is that the criminally insane can usually hide it long enough before getting caught.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I have never really seen a study on the mind of a mass shooter, or what the warning signs are. What kind of traits do these people have, etc.

I would like to know such things, and I wonder if part of reason they usually commit suicide is for the power. The power in taking their own life and the lives of others, and the ultimate power being they will not allow another person to kill them and become a hero. They must get all of the attention and control their own end.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
She taught him how to use her weapons... If he needed to be committed and was anti social, he probably should have never been taught how to handle a weapon to begin with.
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probably true but I have studied active shooter cases where the killer had almost no real firearms experience but having played interactive games was actually competent enough to get high hit ratios on live targets
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
She taught him how to use her weapons... If he needed to be committed and was anti social, he probably should have never been taught how to handle a weapon to begin with.
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Exactly, it was a symphony of errors in judgment. He needed far more professional help than he was getting. He should never had any access to her guns in any form. But the weapons were never the issue, since he was apparently smart enough to have built a bomb that could've killed far more people.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

grip said:
Exactly, it was a symphony of errors in judgment. He needed far more professional help than he was getting. He should never had any access to her guns in any form. But the weapons were never the issue, since he was apparently smart enough to have built a bomb that could've killed far more people.
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His mom was a dooms day prepper. Sometimes gun enthusiasts can be the problem. I used to talk to a girl that once put an automatic rifle her in baby's crib and took a picture, as if it were cute or something. There is a difference between respecting weapons and loving them.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
His mom was a dooms day prepper. Sometimes gun enthusiasts can be the problem. I used to talk to a girl that once put an automatic rifle her in baby's crib and took a picture, as if it were cute or something. There is a difference between respecting weapons and loving them.
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It's been my experience that people who love guns actually respect them the most and preach safety. It's the people who get either unhealthily obsessed, act callously or use poor judgment that create most the problems. Some preppers who allow access to their arsenal by family members and friends that aren't mentally/emotionally capable of using common sense aren't practicing mature or responsible behavior. Mistakes of this caliber can cost lives and serious injury but it's part of life and growing.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
I guess that is what caused him to snap. too bad his mother didn't think about security for her weapons if she had someone who needed commitment around her.
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Sit in judgment when you have fully lived these particular particulars and have been a mother. Yeah, I've read the "prepper" angle too, but I've also read other info about the context of the target-practice-as-bonding-stuff. We're talking about a unique situation here. Too easy to categorize the mother and son and the psych dynamics into a convenient category when no size fits all.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

nota bene said:
Sit in judgment when you have fully lived these particular particulars and have been a mother. Yeah, I've read the "prepper" angle too, but I've also read other info about the context of the target-practice-as-bonding-stuff. We're talking about a unique situation here. Too easy to categorize the mother and son and the psych dynamics into a convenient category when no size fits all.
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no need to judge her-she made a mistake apparently and paid the price. banning her from having guns retroactively apparently is what the anti gun nuts are arguing

not me
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
His mom was a dooms day prepper. Sometimes gun enthusiasts can be the problem. I used to talk to a girl that once put an automatic rifle her in baby's crib and took a picture, as if it were cute or something. There is a difference between respecting weapons and loving them.
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Yeah, I've read a few "prepper" pieces too. Don't reduce this to a prepper thing. Don't dismiss this as a gun-enthusiasts-are-the-problem-thing. This is a unique situation about which none of us is fully aware.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
So an average person with a pistol should be expected to take a heavily armed shooter covered in body armor like Holmes?
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Expected to? Meh, it's certainly possible. Even if they don't succeed in killing the shooter, they would certainly delay/distract them and thus save lives. Taking a round to body-armor isn't like the movies where you just grunt and move on - it still knocks you like getting punched by a sledgehammer.

However, a trained individual responding to an active shooter, such as what the NRA (and we, here) suggests? Definitely.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

SheWolf said:
And the NRA should get backlash for only caring about the children in Connecticut, and not the children in Columbine or the in Aurora, CO, etc.
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wtf? Aurora had no-carry laws, I'm pretty sure if you were to ask the NRA if someone in the audience should have been allowed to shoot back they would answer you in the affirmative.

This is reaching just to try to ascribe moral illegitimacy to those with whom you disagree.
 
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