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Boehner Cancels Tax Vote in Face of G.O.P. Revolt

Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
You are arguing a chicken before the egg. Is it the voters fault for voting in the representatives that give them free stuff, or is it the fault of the representatives for giving into the demands of the voters over what's best for the country?
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Easy answer, YES, read my post #47
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

ttwtt78640 said:
Exactly. Cutting (or not raising) taxes is popular, and saving entitlements is popular. Thus all congress critters will do both, which means continued massive deficit spending. We are fast becomming like Greece, but are far, far "too big to bail". USA, USA, USA...
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Don't disagree there, however it isn't just entitlements that are the problem it is also wasteful defense spending. Take a look at all the military projects out there that have either not gone anywhere or the results are less effective than current technology.

There is wasteful spending EVERYWHERE and not just in entitlements and defense spending, but earmarks and congressional spending as well outside those things.

The whole government is bloated to the point it's leaking money everywhere to worthless endeavors.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Born Free said:
Easy answer, YES, read my post #47
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So the representatives bear no responsibility? BTW, there is also wasteful spending OUTSIDE of entitlements, there is wasteful congressional spending such as earmarks and defense as well.

Reform is needed EVERYWHERE.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
Don't disagree there, however it isn't just entitlements that are the problem it is also wasteful defense spending. Take a look at all the military projects out there that have either not gone anywhere or the results are less effective than current technology.

There is wasteful spending EVERYWHERE and not just in entitlements and defense spending, but earmarks and congressional spending as well outside those things.

The whole government is bloated to the point it's leaking money everywhere to worthless endeavors.
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You will never get an argument from me stating otherwise. The problem is that all current gov't spending is supported by campaign cash and powerful lobbying groups, that either "own" or heavily influence each of the congress critters. DC is all about "cooperation" and "deals"; you support my pork and I'll support your pork. Nothing can change without someone getting the axe (i.e. a solid majority of one party being placed in control), and the current balance of power does not allow the "vulnerable" members (of either party) to sit it out, they must vote "correctly" or take that assured beating, in their next election, if they do not go along with what is now being spent.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
So the representatives bear no responsibility? BTW, there is also wasteful spending OUTSIDE of entitlements, there is wasteful congressional spending such as earmarks and defense as well.

Reform is needed EVERYWHERE.
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I totally agree, but it's not going to happen. The representatives have the same mind set as those that voted him/her in office. This is tax, borrow, spend and breebees, and that is the majority of the populous that love a Welfare / Nanny State. This dependence on government is now rooted into our society and it will not change. From the end of WWII we have been on an endless march of enacting entitlements and freebees. We are now beginning to eat our own flesh.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

ttwtt78640 said:
Nothing can change without someone getting the axe (i.e. a solid majority of one party being placed in control), and the current balance of power does not the "vulnerable" members (of either party) to take that assured beating, in their next election, if they do not go along with what is now being spent.
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And that has shown not to work either, with just one side in power that side just continues to spend on what THEY want to spend on.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
And that has shown not to work either, with just one side in power that side just continues to spend on what THEY want to spend on.
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That is not necessarily so, just that no public pressure currently forces either party to stop the spending madness. They both sit back and wait for the other party to commit polictical suicide by cutting something "sacred" to their campaign cash flow. We see spending cuts (or at least spending priority changes) at all gov't levels below the federal, since they cannot print/borrow money like the feds can - they actually have to "pay for" spending (so far).
 
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Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

ttwtt78640 said:
That is not necessarily so, just that no public pressure currently forces either party to stop the spending madness. They both sit back and wait for the other party to commit polictical suicide by cutting something "sacred" to their campaign cash flow. We see spending cuts (or at least spending priority changes) at all gov't levels below the federal, since they cannot print/borrow money like the feds can - they actually have to "pay for" spending (so far).
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One word, Obamacare. That was the result of one side being in complete control.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
One word, Obamacare. That was the result of one side being in complete control.
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Exactly, but with absolutely no push to "pay for" it, we no longer even have federal "budgets". The moronic public actually believes that you can add 30 to 45 million people that will get gov't subsidized "private" medical care insurance, increase the "no out of pocket cost" care to all and, somehow, save money too. As long as people see only some "ficticious" (unreal?) deficit/debt number, yet rest assured that they (personally) will never be forced to repay it, then the borrowing and spending will go on "forever". It is the public that fell off the "logical cliff" which allows this belief in a gov't supplied "free lunch" to exist.
 
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Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

ttwtt78640 said:
Exactly, but with absolutely no push to "pay for" it, we no longer even have federal "budgets". The moronic public actually believes that you can add 30 to 45 million people that will get gov't subsidized "private" medical care insurance, increase the "no out of pocket cost" care to all and, somehow, save money too. As long as people see only some "ficticious" (unreal?) deficit/debt number, yet rest assured that they (personally) will never be forced to repay it, then the borrowing and spending will go on "forever". It is the public that fell off the "logical cliff" which allows this belief in a gov't supplied "free lunch" to exist.
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And that is just one example from one side. Hence why I don't want one side to be in power. You can add that mentality to defense spending, earmarks, congressional perks, etc.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Thorgasm said:
I have to disagree. The propaganda and misinformation out there often times have people voting against their interests. The wealth gap has concentrated more power at the top. I think it's safe to say that our Founders didn't envision the corruption of money in politics in more ways than one. These representatives need to bring home Federal dollars to their districts. You can't expect the Federal govt. to hand them money and not have some sort of control.
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My last line sort of deals with this. The more power vested into the federal government the more the general system becomes a bit more jumbled because the original system was set up with a system working for a particular notion that around the early 1900's got blown the **** out of the water and has been shat upon since.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Born Free said:
Exactly, this country has flipped, from self dependency and taking responsibility to one of government dependence and freebees. We are now solidly a Welfare / Nanny State, that can't be reversed because of the majorities dependence on government. And it will be those same dependent on government who will screaming in the streets "I demand my entitlements" when the money runs out.
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Makes a strong case for how conservative values will make a comeback. Expand the entitlement programs until the government goes broke and then let the libs fend for themselves. Since they hate guns the conservatives would be able to defend what they have and the libs would starve off. Seems reasonable, kind of a modern twist on the old "grasshopper and ant" story. Leaving the abortion clinics open would speed the process.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Zyphlin said:
So what you're saying is what's wrong with America is that Representatives within a Representative Democracy are Representing their consituency? One of the primary point of the HOR is that these people are SUPPOSED to be watching out for their little district. That podunk county in North Dakota has someone representing and voting on what best represents their views and helps them, not necessarily just going along with what would work best for San Francisco California, Harrisonburg Virginia, Dallas Texas, or Grand Rapids Michigan. THOSE places have their own representatives to push for that.

The reason it's "not working" as well now as when invisioned is because the Federal Government has massively expanded beyond it's purpose
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When you have representantives and senators that vote on an issue that affects the entire country based on what a handful want in their districts whether or not its bad for the entire country is exactly what im saying. You have state representatives that can worry about pockets of their constituents, national politicians should be looking and making decisions on the broader view of the country.
The govt expanding or contracting has absolutely nothing to do with this...where do you pull this stuff out from lol
The republicans are fractured and in disarray and thats not my statement...thats a statement from republican strategists and gop media like Krystal and other well known pundits.
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Moot said:
That clown Boehner's Plan B was so ridiculous that not even the extremists in his own party would for it. What was he thinking? Boehner obviously must have thought he had the votes, but no. So instead of doing his job and sticking it out to negotiate something that could at least get 45 votes from his own party to pass (if got the Dems came on board), he tucks his tail between legs and scurry's home to cry his drunken eyes out, leaving the country to slide into another recession.....



Boehner Cancels Tax Vote in Face of G.O.P. Revolt

...House Republican leaders abruptly canceled a vote on the bill after they failed to rally enough votes for passage in an emergency meeting about 8 p.m. Within minutes, dejected Republicans filed out of the basement meeting room and declared there would be no votes to avert the “fiscal cliff” until after Christmas. With his “Plan B” all but dead, the speaker was left with the choice to find a new Republican way forward or to try to get a broad deficit reduction deal with President Obama that could win passage with Republican and Democratic votes.

What he could not do was blame Democrats for failing to take up legislation he could not even get through his own membership in the House...read

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/u...boehners-backup-plan.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
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I'm not worried about a recession if they don't strike a deal. The debate will just slide over to next year where the Dems will have even more leverage.
 
poweRob said:
I'm not worried about a recession if they don't strike a deal. The debate will just slide over to next year where the Dems will have even more leverage.
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The Dems already have all the leverage and will have for the foreseeable future, it's tax the rich, borrow, spend, and freebees. That's what the majority of Americans want, entitlements and freebees. From the end of WWII liberals have been working on this plan of getting everyone hooked on entitlement and free stuff, and you've made it. You're there, just keep promising more freebees and your a shoe in to be elected or reelected.
 
Born Free said:
The Dems already have all the leverage and will have for the foreseeable future, it's tax the rich, borrow, spend, and freebees. That's what the majority of Americans want, entitlements and freebees. From the end of WWII liberals have been working on this plan of getting everyone hooked on entitlement and free stuff, and you've made it. You're there, just keep promising more freebees and your a shoe in to be elected or reelected.
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I think you're on to something.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Inside The Meltdown


I find the reactions of those who opposed the Plan B interesting.
 
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