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Thread: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes[W: 414]

  1. #341
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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You don't want simple facts for if you did you would see a 16.3 trillion dollar debt, over 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, a President who is going to spend us into oblivion and has no interest in lowering the debt for that is the way liberals get people like you. You become dependent on the govt. and then continue to elect the same arrogant liberals over and over again.
    Yes, I get this same sort of gibberish from the local cave-dweller community. Republicans, I think they still call themselves, though I'm not sure why. Meanwhile, the baton that was passed to Obama was a complete disaster in progress. Two failed wars plus the culmination of eight of the least competent years of economic stewadship in the history of the country. The only choice was between more debt and more disaster. Not a hard choice, really. Except for the people who were at fault for all this to begin with. Most of them don't seem to like seeing the economy turned around and set back on a proper path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I see no evidence that you ever ran anything for if you ran your business like the govt. you would be bankrupt. Maybe a govt. bailout has bought your loyalty.
    Well, I do direct my own local 501(c)(3) and sit on the board of a regional one. Then there's the LLC thing. It's enough to keep me busy.

  2. #342
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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    If people earn anything they owe something for the govt. that they get benefits from.
    Not according to the Form 1040 instructions and tables. Maybe you should go check.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No income earning American should ever have a zero net income tax burden. Instead of going after those evil rich people get something from income earners paying nothing in FIT
    As you probably don't understand, a lot of the people with refundable tax credits pay no net income tax, but they do receive a lower refund because of taxes owed that were offset. So while they are paying taxes through smaller refunds, they still show up in the 51% (2009) who paid no net taxes.

    Meanwhile, some rich people are evil, there's really no debate about that. But most aren't and the reason their taxes need to go up as we get back to business-as-usual here is only that such a step provides the best ratio of fiscal benefit to economic cost of any option on the table. Well, that plus the fact that these folks have been enjoying a free-money bonanza ever since those Bush tax cuts for the rich went into effect along with policies of diverting productivity gains into corporate profits rather than wage increases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Zero interest rates are helping keep the debt service lower but I would have thought an economic genius like you would know that.
    Yes, thank you, I do know that. And unlike so many right-wing babblers, I even know that interest accrues not at market rates, but at the rate specified in each individual note. The current average interest rate on the public debt is 2.52% and with an average maturity of 65 months, even if market rates were to increase, it would be a good while for that to be reflected in actual interest due on the debt. And of course the best projections are that inflation and interest rates will be flat for the next three years at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Federal Income taxes fund the Federal Govt. or didn't you know that?
    Yes, I did know that, and it is also funded by payroll taxes, corporate income taxes, excise taxes, import duties, estate and gift taxes, and miscellaneous receipts. But the question at the time was over tax burden on low-income individuals and they face quite a steep one. An average overall tax bite of 17% for a group that only averages $13K per year in income is pretty hard to justify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Today we have a 3.8 trillion dollar budget that isn't funded by state or local taxes. We have a spending problem thanks to liberalism not a revenue problem.
    No, we indeed have a revenue problem, as the following graph demonstrates quite clearly...

    three_lines_third_1960-2011.jpg

    See the green line? That's actual federal spending in FY 1960 stated in constant 2005 dollars and then expanded at a rate of 3.25% per year to account for population and productivity growth. See the red line? That actual federal spending over the past 50+ years stated in constant 2005 dollars. See the blue line? That's actual federal revenue over the past 50+ years stated in constant 2005 dollars. See how the blue line goes completely kerflooey once George W Bush arrives on the scene? THAT'S where our problems lie.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 01-20-13 at 08:02 PM.

  3. #343
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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Wrong, the biggest drivers of our debt is govt. spending on entitlements something you wil never understand.

    Show me how Social Security is contributing to our national debt. I admit Medicare needs our attention. Preferably by replacing it with national healthcare for ALL OF OUR CITIZENS.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Not according to the Form 1040 instructions and tables. Maybe you should go check.


    As you probably don't understand, a lot of the people with refundable tax credits pay no net income tax, but they do receive a lower refund because of taxes owed that were offset. So while they are paying taxes through smaller refunds, they still show up in the 51% (2009) who paid no net taxes.

    Meanwhile, some rich people are evil, there's really no debate about that. But most aren't and the reason their taxes need to go up as we get back to business-as-usual here is only that such a step provides the best ratio of fiscal benefit to economic cost of any option on the table. Well, that plus the fact that these folks have been enjoying a free-money bonanza ever since those Bush tax cuts for the rich went into effect along with policies of diverting productivity gains into corporate profits rather than wage increases.


    Yes, thank you, I do know that. And unlike so many right-wing babblers, I even know that interest accrues not at market rates, but at the rate specified in each individual note. The current average interest rate on the public debt is 2.52% and with an average maturity of 65 months, even if market rates were to increase, it would be a good while for that to be reflected in actual interest due on the debt. And of course the best projections are that inflation and interest rates will be flat for the next three years at least.


    Yes, I did know that, and it is also funded by payroll taxes, corporate income taxes, excise taxes, import duties, estate and gift taxes, and miscellaneous receipts. But the question at the time was over tax burden on low-income individuals and they face quite a steep one. An average overall tax bite of 17% for a group that only averages $13K per year in income is pretty hard to justify.


    No, we indeed have a revenue problem, as the following graph demonstrates quite clearly...

    three_lines_third_1960-2011.jpg

    See the green line? That's actual federal spending in FY 1960 stated in constant 2005 dollars and then expanded at a rate of 3.25% per year to account for population and productivity growth. See the red line? That actual federal spending over the past 50+ years stated in constant 2005 dollars. See the blue line? That's actual federal revenue over the past 50+ years stated in constant 2005 dollars. See how the blue line goes completely kerflooey once George W Bush arrives on the scene? THAT'S where our problems lie.
    You are so right, we need a massive central govt that spends 3.8 trillion dollars a year, has record numbers on food stamps, 23 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged, 40 plus million below the poverty level all to keep liberals in power. You are right, we don't have a spending problem, we need fewer rich people to pay for that 3.8 trillion dollar budget.

    Liberal arrogance on full display, higher taxes, lower economic growth, and high unemployment! You must be so proud.

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    Show me how Social Security is contributing to our national debt. I admit Medicare needs our attention. Preferably by replacing it with national healthcare for ALL OF OUR CITIZENS.
    Right, we totally understand how effecient the Federal Govt. is by knowing that every Federal Program cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, and solved every social problem. Had SS and Medicare been left off budget as it was intended there would be enough money today to fund retirees and future retirees but since SS and Medicare money has been spent on everything other than SS and Medicare there aren't enough workers or money today to meet obligations.

    Did you ever find that 600 billion a year that the rich are paying in taxes? Let me know when you figure out that people keeping more of what they earn aren't an expense to the govt?

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    [QUOTE=Conservative;1061373802 Had SS and Medicare been left off budget as it was intended there would be enough money today to fund retirees and future retirees but since SS and Medicare money has been spent on everything other than SS and Medicare there aren't enough workers or money today to meet obligations.

    ?[/QUOTE]

    There still is plenty of money to pay for SS, itís just in interest bearing bonds held by the Gov.Would you feel better if our Gov borrowed the money to pay SS from China?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    There still is plenty of money to pay for SS, it’s just in interest bearing bonds held by the Gov.Would you feel better if our Gov borrowed the money to pay SS from China?
    Where exactly does the money come from to pay for those interest bearing bonds? You simply don't have a clue.

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Where exactly does the money come from to pay for those interest bearing bonds? You simply don't have a clue.
    The same place that it comes from to to pay for the $3.4 trillion loss of our revenue because of the Wars, bush tax cuts and prescription drug plan. Didn't you learn anything about "cause and effect" in school?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    The same place that it comes from to to pay for the $3.4 trillion loss of our revenue because of the Wars, bush tax cuts and prescription drug plan. Didn't you learn anything about "cause and effect" in school?
    You didn't answer the question, where does the money come from to pay the bonds? Just take 600 billion a year from the rich?

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You didn't answer the question, where does the money come from to pay the bonds? Just take 600 billion a year from the rich?

    Reading comprehensions not your strong point eh?

    The same place that it comes from to to pay for the $3.4 trillion loss of our revenue because of the Wars
    , bush tax cuts and prescription drug plan. Didn't you learn anything about "cause and effect" in school?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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