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Thread: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes[W: 414]

  1. #111
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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post



    The only thing that i see that pertains to what we were discussing,and that is an oblique reference at most, is our bloated military spending.SIGNIFICANT CUTS. whoopee,about time.we don't have a need for a $134.5 million plane. That's what the F-35 will cost with its $22 million engine.

    First off your figures are off...The most recent estimates are significantly lower than that $134.5 million you quote. But I prefer in matters like this to as the experts on the aircraft instead of taking your word if you don't mind....

    "the USMC stood up its first operational F-35 squadron. The squadron, VMFA 121, is commanded by Lt. Col. Jeffery Scott, who talked about the fighter in a recent interview:
    The F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter jet will be a strategic deterrent for the nation because of its “huge leap in capability,” a Marine Corps pilot said. Lt. Col. Jeffrey Scott, commander of the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing’s Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz., recently told the Pentagon Channel the F-35 will allow Marines to perform missions in high-threat areas, unlike existing aircraft.

    The F-35 will be able to do every mission now performed by the AV-8 Harrier does now, but will be able to do it in more situations, said Scott, who is involved with flying and testing the new aircraft. The new fighter will provide access to more areas, he explained, and will allow more time for rolling back enemy defenses.
    Something often ignored by criticsis the overall capability of the F-35. It will not only do what the AV-8 now does, it will also do everything the F/A 18 does - and more.
    “The sensors and systems are the big leap deploying the aircraft in terms of tactics,” he said.

    “The Lightning will fulfill a lot of the functions of Marine Corps aviation — such as [our] air support role, antiair, targeting enemy ground locations and supporting the troops on the ground — as Harriers and [F/A-18] Hornets do now,” he added. “But it brings more in one aircraft in its ability to protect itself from the enemy.”
    The sensor suite, as recognized by Lt. Col. Scott, is the generational leap. The sensor fusion, that is having the aircraft fusing the sensor data vs. requiring the pilot to do that, make the difference. That difference means the pilot can concentrate on mission and defense. Add to that the fact that the F-35 networks with other systems as well as other F-35s and one can begin to see the possibilities of those sorts of capabilities. Additionally, all the roles mentioned by Scott are contained in one aircraft without necessitating reconfiguration for each mission or limiting it to one mission at a time. That means fewer aircraft doing more missions.

    That is a huge capabilities shift to the positive side.

    Scott's squadron will now develop and test the squadron level tactics, maintenance and other critical items for the F-35 that will eventually become standard operating procedure for future USMC F-35 squadrons.
    Scott said the F-35 will give the military “a huge leap in capability, probably five or six steps beyond what we now have.”

    “We’re going to have this aircraft for a long time,” he said. “As we get more and more of these aircraft in all of the services, we’re going to see a lot of the benefits that the aircraft has in terms of commonality. As we start operating tactically, some of the communications [and] capabilities will become more and more valuable to the services, … and it will be in demand to combatant commanders around the world.”
    If you're interested in what this aircraft can do and will do, listening to those who fly it and maintain it is in your best interest. The F-35 continues to develop well in testing and appears to be well on its way to fulfilling all those promised capabilities. Lt. Col. Scott is obviously one of the Marine Corps top pilots, having been given command of its first F-35 squadron. His enthusiasm for the aircraft and its capabilities, his understanding of what it promises, tell you a lot more than the critics who don't even understand why VMAF-121 was made operational.

    The pilots apparently like what they see, feel and fly with the F-35. They like the capabilities the aircraft brings to the fight. It is their lives that will be on the line when it does go fully operational and is committed to combat for the first time. They are looking forward to flying it for a long time to come.

    That should tell you all you need to know."

    Why the F-35?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    First off your figures are off...The most recent estimates are significantly lower than that $134.5 million you quote. But I prefer in matters like this to as the experts on the aircraft instead of taking your word if you don't mind....

    "the USMC stood up its first operational F-35 squadron. The squadron, VMFA 121, is commanded by Lt. Col. Jeffery Scott, who talked about the fighter in a recent interview:
    The F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter jet will be a strategic deterrent for the nation because of its “huge leap in capability,” a Marine Corps pilot said. Lt. Col. Jeffrey Scott, commander of the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing’s Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121 at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz., recently told the Pentagon Channel the F-35 will allow Marines to perform missions in high-threat areas, unlike existing aircraft.

    The F-35 will be able to do every mission now performed by the AV-8 Harrier does now, but will be able to do it in more situations, said Scott, who is involved with flying and testing the new aircraft. The new fighter will provide access to more areas, he explained, and will allow more time for rolling back enemy defenses.
    Something often ignored by criticsis the overall capability of the F-35. It will not only do what the AV-8 now does, it will also do everything the F/A 18 does - and more.
    “The sensors and systems are the big leap deploying the aircraft in terms of tactics,” he said.

    “The Lightning will fulfill a lot of the functions of Marine Corps aviation — such as [our] air support role, antiair, targeting enemy ground locations and supporting the troops on the ground — as Harriers and [F/A-18] Hornets do now,” he added. “But it brings more in one aircraft in its ability to protect itself from the enemy.”
    The sensor suite, as recognized by Lt. Col. Scott, is the generational leap. The sensor fusion, that is having the aircraft fusing the sensor data vs. requiring the pilot to do that, make the difference. That difference means the pilot can concentrate on mission and defense. Add to that the fact that the F-35 networks with other systems as well as other F-35s and one can begin to see the possibilities of those sorts of capabilities. Additionally, all the roles mentioned by Scott are contained in one aircraft without necessitating reconfiguration for each mission or limiting it to one mission at a time. That means fewer aircraft doing more missions.

    That is a huge capabilities shift to the positive side.

    Scott's squadron will now develop and test the squadron level tactics, maintenance and other critical items for the F-35 that will eventually become standard operating procedure for future USMC F-35 squadrons.
    Scott said the F-35 will give the military “a huge leap in capability, probably five or six steps beyond what we now have.”

    “We’re going to have this aircraft for a long time,” he said. “As we get more and more of these aircraft in all of the services, we’re going to see a lot of the benefits that the aircraft has in terms of commonality. As we start operating tactically, some of the communications [and] capabilities will become more and more valuable to the services, … and it will be in demand to combatant commanders around the world.”
    If you're interested in what this aircraft can do and will do, listening to those who fly it and maintain it is in your best interest. The F-35 continues to develop well in testing and appears to be well on its way to fulfilling all those promised capabilities. Lt. Col. Scott is obviously one of the Marine Corps top pilots, having been given command of its first F-35 squadron. His enthusiasm for the aircraft and its capabilities, his understanding of what it promises, tell you a lot more than the critics who don't even understand why VMAF-121 was made operational.

    The pilots apparently like what they see, feel and fly with the F-35. They like the capabilities the aircraft brings to the fight. It is their lives that will be on the line when it does go fully operational and is committed to combat for the first time. They are looking forward to flying it for a long time to come.

    That should tell you all you need to know."

    Why the F-35?
    I admit, i was wrong.I was using old data,here is data for Dec.19,2012, that shows THE COST NOW EXCEEDS $223 MILLION DOLLARS PER instead of the $134.5 million that i quoted.

    That being said,i was outraged at the old price but this number leaves me flabbergasted. WTF do we need these for?WhOTF is going to attack us that we need this kinda planes to defend ourselves?The talaban?The mullahs in Iran?Are the crazy one, in N. Korea that shoots missiles and hopes that it will make it off the launch pad?



    <According to this research, Lockheed has been awarded ten contracts for LRIP Lot 5, for a total value of $5,876 million (see Table 1). When this is divided by the number of aircraft (32), the cost of each airplane averages $183.6 million, or double the JPO prices detailed above.>

    <Furthermore, once the cost of the Pratt & Whitney F-135 engine is added, the cost of a complete Lot 5 aircraft increases to $223.03 million. (As the final cost of LRIP 5 engines has not been finalized, we have used the $39.4 million cost of LRIP 4 engines).>



    (Source: Defense-Aerospace.com; published Dec. 19, 2012)

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/141238/**f_35-lot-5-unit-costs-exceed-$223m.html
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  3. #113
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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    I admit, i was wrong.I was using old data,here is data for Dec.19,2012, that shows THE COST NOW EXCEEDS $223 MILLION DOLLARS PER instead of the $134.5 million that i quoted.
    I believe that the Pentagon is trying to revise that number.

    That being said,i was outraged at the old price but this number leaves me flabbergasted. WTF do we need these for?WhOTF is going to attack us that we need this kinda planes to defend ourselves?The talaban?The mullahs in Iran?Are the crazy one, in N. Korea that shoots missiles and hopes that it will make it off the launch pad?
    A new generation of anything is costly for sure, but it is one thing that is constitutionally mandated, and a proper use of our tax money. Are you as outraged that food stamp enrollment is up by over 15 million people? And are you just as outraged that the Dept. of Ag is actively advertising to get more people on the rolls?

    Maybe it is a priorities thing.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Further Whip, one must wonder why you left this portion of the article you cite, out of the portions you decided to print....

    We readily acknowledge that this this is an imperfect way of estimating unit costs. However, dividing the total cost of a production batch by the number of aircraft it comprises is, however imperfect and approximate, the most comprehensive way of determining the price taxpayers actually end up paying. And this approach leaves no room for creative accounting.

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/141238/**f_35-lot-5-unit-costs-exceed-$223m.html
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I believe that the Pentagon is trying to revise that number.



    A new generation of anything is costly for sure, but it is one thing that is constitutionally mandated, and a proper use of our tax money. Are you as outraged that food stamp enrollment is up by over 15 million people? And are you just as outraged that the Dept. of Ag is actively advertising to get more people on the rolls?

    Maybe it is a priorities thing.

    Get off this dept of agg and food stamp attempt at deflection and address the the ONE FRIGGING PLANE THAT WOULD FUND FOOD STAMPS FOR A YEAR.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I believe that the Pentagon is trying to revise that number.



    A new generation of anything is costly for sure, but it is one thing that is constitutionally mandated, and a proper use of our tax money. Are you as outraged that food stamp enrollment is up by over 15 million people? And are you just as outraged that the Dept. of Ag is actively advertising to get more people on the rolls?

    Maybe it is a priorities thing.
    Have any F22 aircraft ever been used in combat? Defense toys are politically popular since they are made in about 37 states and thus have "bipartisan" appeal. They "create or save" millions of U.S. jobs and are generally off limits to foreign bids to reduce costs; can't have those "defective" milspec parts, like bolts, sheet metal and tires, from those "foreigners" - they might be sabotaged! If these toys actually get used, work or are sold to our allies, then perhaps they are worth the effort. But often they are simply declared "outdtated" and the replcement program is started (at considerably higher cost) lest we be "vulnerable to" our latest percieved possible enemy.

    F-22 Raptor History

    F-22 Raptor Loses $79 Billion Advantage in Dogfights: Report - ABC News
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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    Get off this dept of agg and food stamp attempt at deflection and address the the ONE FRIGGING PLANE THAT WOULD FUND FOOD STAMPS FOR A YEAR.
    You just make **** up that you think sounds good in a progressive narrative don't you....Problem is when you talk out of your arse, is that it is clear that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

    A record number of Americans—46.7 million, or nearly 1 in 7--now uses the food stamp program, according to the Department of Agriculture. The annual cost of SNAP (the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, as the food stamp program is officially known) hit $72 billion last year, up from $30 billion four years earlier.

    Food Stamps Making Food Companies Fat - ABC News
    You anti defense people who are unwilling to take a hard look at the real waste of money in entitlements are sickening.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Further Whip, one must wonder why you left this portion of the article you cite, out of the portions you decided to print....
    And this approach leaves no room for creative accounting.
    LOL...you think that last bit helps your argument? I mean ignoring the fact that Pentagon is notorious for underestimates, you don't understand how that phrase you quoted absolutely kills whatever point you think you had?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #119
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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL...you think that last bit helps your argument? I mean ignoring the fact that Pentagon is notorious for underestimates, you don't understand how that phrase you quoted absolutely kills whatever point you think you had?
    Please do enlighten me.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: G.O.P. Leaders in House Pull Tax Bill, Citing Lack of Votes

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post



    You anti defense people who are unwilling to take a hard look at the real waste of money in entitlements are sickening.
    Yes, feeding people...US citizens...is a waste of money.

    Merry Christmas.


    PS....FLASHBACK...

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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