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Thread: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    What vehement? I am not being vehement, just insist on pointing out how flawed the feel good CCW teacher 'fix' is.

    Just am a bit amused that after so many posts calling teachers subversive socialists some 'conservatives' now believe there will be enough of these Union sheeple willing to go against all of that and strap-on some iron and here is a burr under the saddle, spend many hours training far above any CCW requirement when the same 'conservatives' decry the willingness of teachers to work hard enough at their jobs as it is?

    This is not MY opinion of teachers, go look at any thread involving teachers.

    I see a lot of git more 'guns' talk as if that is the only fix. There are many other security measures that don't have teachers carrying deadly force in classrooms.

    I saw a commercial the other day where the voice over asked, "Do you really want your doctor doing your job? Then why do you want to do his?" Given the condition many 'conservatives' see our educational system in I'd a bet a shiny nickle they wouldn't want any diversion from 120% focus on teaching our children and let the security team focus on keeping crazy out the building.

    Not vehement, just experienced and practical.
    We all have the right to defend ourselves. That right includes teachers. We can deal with the right of self defense as a separate issue form their being members in public sector unions.

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Something that has been missed is there are alternatives to guns at schools that we havent even tried.
    Tasers and bean bag weapons come right to mind. It would require training and possibly lock zones where such things would be kept accessible to multiple personnel in the event of something like this but it is an option. Both have range options that make them limited in dealing with someone, which Ill admit freely off the bat.
    Tranq guns might also be a possibility.

    Other control options are shock grenades, tear gas and pepper spray---the problems with all these is that they will hit or harm potential victims. They dont seem particularly feasible.

    Anyhow, just thought Id throw my two cents in about alternatives to armed teachers if lethal force seems to be the main problem. We have options but they are not perfect.

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Either gun owners hang onto the narrative that they are law abiding citizens, that no one needs to fear for them being armed, or they can support actions like this. You can't have it both ways were you talk about stopping criminals, while you are currently breaking the law. Now I get it that her crime is far far from a murder or a shooting, but it is still illegal what she did.
    You must get whiplash having sworn to protect the Constitution, and then trying to kill the right to keep and bear arms at the same time.
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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by smalltime View Post
    Or.......
    You could lend a little bit of perspective on life:
    Attachment 67139684
    Nothing like living in a thrid world country is that what it has come to! I am sure the teacher in question was dumb enough to believe that a pistol would do any good against and assult weapon. Talk about bring a spoon to a knife fight. Wow the crazies are coming out of the wood work,

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Nothing like living in a thrid world country is that what it has come to! I am sure the teacher in question was dumb enough to believe that a pistol would do any good against and assault weapon. Talk about bring a spoon to a knife fight. Wow the crazies are coming out of the wood work,
    All us crazies are trying to do is show the loony left that there are other ways to look at a problem.

    BTW the teacher in the pic is carrying an assault rifle. But if she were carrying a pistol, she could still effectively defend those children. Just need to compose yourself and aim.
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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by smalltime View Post
    All us crazies are trying to do is show the loony left that there are other ways to look at a problem.

    BTW the teacher in the pic is carrying an assault rifle. But if she were carrying a pistol, she could still effectively defend those children. Just need to compose yourself and aim.
    I was talking about the teacher that brought the gun to the school. I find it funny you think that a pistol could defend children against a ar-15 you must not a have a clue about fire power. For years we have heard the same thing from the gun nuts when a shooting occurs. Get more bigger and better guns. Tell me for years this has been preached and we still have these problems so clearly more guns are not the solution.

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    I see problems with arming teachers in general, but not with a very limited select number including officer personnel.

    Even cops literally sometimes leave their side arm laying somewhere. Many teachers could be easily overwhelmed on a surprise, that teacher then being the source of the firearm including for some drug wacked out kid or parent.

    There are enough people with former military and/or police experience at most schools, that such a background combined with specific training makes "armed security" within the school staff a viable alternative. But there are many questions too, such as what type of firearm so the children aren't also hit. A 45 with a laser sight? 9mm with 15 round mag? Shotgun?

    A bring-what-you-got and just having a conceal carry permit is NOT enough. These would have to be specifically qualified and particularly specifically trained staff members with specifically issued firearms. I'd suggest 1911 45acps with laser sights (since most people under stress are terrible handgun shooters, even most cops - but a laser sight addresses that). A big, knockdown bullet BUT with little wall penetrating ability.

    For larger schools, why not make the Asst Principle a law enforcement qualified position? Literally have a dual role uniformed officer - who then also address behavior issues in general? Large schools need that anyway.

    Thus, to find the right personnel? The first question would be "any former Marines, former Army Rangers, or former law enforcement officers on staff?"

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Nothing like living in a thrid world country is that what it has come to! I am sure the teacher in question was dumb enough to believe that a pistol would do any good against and assult weapon. Talk about bring a spoon to a knife fight. Wow the crazies are coming out of the wood work,
    Before calling someone else dumb in your statements, you might want to consider improving your own knowledge. The skill and bravery of the user is always the difference, not the type of gun, in a close environment.

    There is no significant difference between rates of fire for most pistols (very large calibers can slow you down some) vs semi-automatic "assault rifles". With semi-automatic pistols, there is often not even a large difference in capacity. The semi-automatic "assault" rifle will normally have better accuracy, if properly used, and greater range. Once you enter a building, range usually becomes a non factor and at those short ranges, the rifle doesn't offer a significant difference in achievable accuracy. In a close environment, like a room, a pistol can actually be the better and more effective choice, depending of course on caliber of the pistol.

    That is why I use my pistol (Dessert Eagle, .44 Mag, three 8 round magazines, 240 grain Hollow-points (I know, too large, but it is the only handgun that naturally fits my hand)) for home defense inside my house, not my M-4 "Assault" rifle (my small/medium sized game hunting rifle and close range deer rifle).
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You must get whiplash having sworn to protect the Constitution, and then trying to kill the right to keep and bear arms at the same time.
    Am I trying to do that? I'm simply pointing out that gun owners should take a second to think about their fairly common mantra of needing guns for those who break the laws, while so many of them break the law themselves in regards to where they bring their weapon.

    By the way that oath does not prevent me from having a wide range of political beliefs should I choose to have them, and your opinion on what the Constitution means is not what I've sworn to support and defend

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Before calling someone else dumb in your statements, you might want to consider improving your own knowledge. The skill and bravery of the user is always the difference, not the type of gun, in a close environment.

    There is no significant difference between rates of fire for most pistols (very large calibers can slow you down some) vs semi-automatic "assault rifles". With semi-automatic pistols, there is often not even a large difference in capacity. The semi-automatic "assault" rifle will normally have better accuracy, if properly used, and greater range. Once you enter a building, range usually becomes a non factor and at those short ranges, the rifle doesn't offer a significant difference in achievable accuracy. In a close environment, like a room, a pistol can actually be the better and more effective choice, depending of course on caliber of the pistol.

    That is why I use my pistol (Dessert Eagle, .44 Mag, three 8 round magazines, 240 grain Hollow-points (I know, too large, but it is the only handgun that naturally fits my hand)) for home defense inside my house, not my M-4 "Assault" rifle (my small/medium sized game hunting rifle and close range deer rifle).
    Oh contraire mon frere.
    A rifle has a much better sight plane and accuracy goes up considerably even in close quarters, a plus if children are in the mix. SWAT teams don't enter a building with pistols. few homes have halls as long as a school's or rooms as big as classrooms, and a headshot on a hostage taker is better done with a rifle than pistol, especially your 44 mag. Big difference between your house and a school, (I am with you on home defense pistols), if pistols were better in schools SWAT would go in with them.

    Next the proper term for the M-4 is M4, no dash and even more accurately you have an M4orgery, as the M4 is capable of select fire. (I should call my AK an AKish )

    Last most savvy 'gun' owners know there are a literal turd ton of aftermarket sleeves that can upscale the grip area of damn near any pistol made. No need to use one of the least handy pistols in home defense unless the larger caliber makes you feel better. (I am willing to bet you have not fired that handcannon in a dark room before- blinding comes to my mind.)

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