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Thread: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

  1. #101
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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Yeah, i do. gee, a minority of the time. Actually less than one percent of crime is prevented by armed intervention by a citizen. So no you are still not a hero, and you are more likely to get robbged, shoot yourself, shoot someone innocent, or just plain not be around your gun than you are to ever act as a hero. No, quit claiming because it happened once you are some sort of hero for owning a gun. Even the VP of the US is more likely to shoot someone in the face than to stop someone from harming him.


    You just tried to make them into heroes twice. No I do not think blowing away some kids in the middle east with a guided missile from miles away makes an armed vetran a hero. First responders, cops, and EMTs are heroes. The modern US military is not a hero, and BTW is one of the actual reasons our founding fathers wanted the states to have a well armed militia because they saw federal troops of the US to be the biggest enemy to freedom we face. before you keep on arguing they are heroes and telling me I should be proud of them think about how big the pile of patriotic thoughtless BS that you are shoveling is.


    Now you have made me LMAO. here is how it goes when you deal with moving targets that don't shoot back. Idiot with a gun hears gunshots, run's half a mile, digs load of crap out of shorts, pulls out gun, freaks out and sprays bullets blindly into crowd of fleeing victims of original shooter. You shot targets so you think you know what it is like to be under attack by a real gunman. Especially one that has an assault rifle and some handguns while you sport your easily jammed cheapo pistol. You are not a hero. If you are unlucky enough to actually be there and armed in this situation you are a panicky shaky ball of nerves and adrenaline who will snap fire at most anything that moves in your stark terror at the thought of an armed gunman. This is why we don't want you armed. We know where the actual gunman is, and we don't need to be shot in the back or whuile we are running by you fumbling with your gun and pittling yourself.

    You guys have got to stop this heroic rambo routine. You are not rambo. you do not keep your cool in a live fire situation. You are not saving a world full of kids, and you will most likely be responsible for running little kids over as you dash for safety than anything else in the situation. I have seen you heroic types cowering in fear over paint filled geletin capsules that don't cause death. I have seen you shoot your friends on your team because you were scared ****less. i have seen you panick and run face first into trees. I have seen you bobble your gun and blind fire out of terror. I have seen you pant and wheeze after 15 steps of running with your gun. I have seen you take cover behind twigs.


    No, what she just did is show us all the stupidity of gun owners by committing a felony with her pistol. She will be arrested. She will be tried and convicted. her gun will be taken from her, and her house will be searched for any other firearms. She will never own a gun again because she will be a convicted felon. She will pay fines, lawyers fees, and most likely spend a few years paying the probation department for the joy of going there. She will be restricted in drinking and any drug use will have to not only be reviewed by her doctor, but also by some idiot probation officer. She might even spend some time in jail for her troubles. All so she could put a gun in her locker which she would never get to while the school is locked down during an armed attack. unlike the heroic teachers who died trying to protect the children in CT, she will try to abandon the kids to get to her locker which will be in a room that is locked up because the school is locked down. In her wandering through the halls she will probably end up another victim while her unsupervised children will probably get killed because they are not locked down and are easy victims.

    Quit living in gun fantasy land. Seriously, grandma with a gun is not even a concerned for a heavily armed suicidal attacker. She will hesitate if she actually has her gun and is there. If she gets a shot off it will be shaky and miss. meanwhile her only chance is that the shooter is paralized with fits of uncontrollable laughter and the authorities get there before he can recover and arrest him. She would have better luck stripping naked and trying to cause him to asphyxiate on his own vomit after seeing her sagging grandma naughty bits.
    Sigh, same crap, different thread. Go read through Polls-Gun Control and the other threads concerning the issue. I, for one am tired of retyping the same old arguments just because someone brings it up again in a different thread.

    After you have read through all the arguments and if you still want to discuss it further, then by all means post it in threads related to gun control.

    You may can consider all those threads as part of my rebuttal.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  2. #102
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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Earlier I wrote, "At the ranges most engagements are likely to occur at within gun free buildings handguns are fine. The goal is not to have one-on-one engagements. The goal is for the targeting problem to be very difficult. We do not want one obvious person to have a concealed carry permit. We want dozens of school workers to be trained and armed for their self defense.

    How many guns were present at Sandy Hook?
    More guns in the hands of the right people, the school workers, might have been the right answer. If you goal is to prevent mass killings then more guns carried by more people is a good answer. If you have some other goal then you will also likely have some other answer."

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    So then explain Columbine and the Arizona shooting both had guns in the right hand and nothing happen. I do recall in Arizona it was an unarmed man that tackled the gun man. Seem to me you aree grasping at air trying to prove a point. Just like anytime there is a shooting the NRA and the rights answer is more guns. Talk about beating your head against the wall
    I see. So if someone is shooting you prefer to wait for him to reload between killings? Talk about beating your head against the wall. I suppose that is why you are very liberal and I am a conservative.

    Is your plan to wait for the mass killing to be over and then go after a guy with an empty gun?

  3. #103
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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Earlier I wrote, "At the ranges most engagements are likely to occur at within gun free buildings handguns are fine. The goal is not to have one-on-one engagements. The goal is for the targeting problem to be very difficult. We do not want one obvious person to have a concealed carry permit. We want dozens of school workers to be trained and armed for their self defense.

    How many guns were present at Sandy Hook?
    More guns in the hands of the right people, the school workers, might have been the right answer. If you goal is to prevent mass killings then more guns carried by more people is a good answer. If you have some other goal then you will also likely have some other answer."


    I see. So if someone is shooting you prefer to wait for him to reload between killings? Talk about beating your head against the wall. I suppose that is why you are very liberal and I am a conservative.

    Is your plan to wait for the mass killing to be over and then go after a guy with an empty gun?
    That is exactly how the Arizona shooting was stopped he gun either jammed or he was reloading. If they do not have 30 or one hundred round clips they would have to reload. The point is a 9mm isnt going to stop a person with a 30 round clip it is simple math and that math is 3 to1 in favor of the person who can spray rounds. Oh by the way the peron at the arizona shooting with the gun could not get a shot off

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Earlier I wrote, "We all have the right to defend ourselves. That right includes teachers. We can deal with the right of self defense as a separate issue form their being members in public sector unions."

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    yes we do, but as the courts say not with a firearm in all places. We have gone over the list plenty enough times.
    I cannot say whether it is courts or liberal politicians who came up with the idea of gun free zones but the mass murderers sure love them. There have been about 60 mass killings involving firearms in the last twenty years. All, or very nearly all, have occurred in designated gun free zones.

    Now instead of thinking of a firearm in the hands of amateurs, perhaps pepper spray could have ended the gunman's shooting spree, at least made it a lot more difficult.
    Yeah. That is what I want when someone is shooting at me. Pepper spray? What range does pepper spray have?

    One rather disquieting new aspect has been the use of body armor by the 'crazed' gunman- not too crazy to think of that- so it would take a head or femur artery shot to be somewhat quick about ending the shooting spree. Even taking out a leg won't stop the shooter if he is determined. (If you use the most loonies are pussies then pepper spray becomes an effective option)
    Why don't we agree that teachers may defend themselves and if you want to go after a gunman with pepper spray instead of a firearm that is you prerogative.

    It isn't the Teachers are Union members as must as right wing radicals are always decrying these Union folks as commies bent on undermining the Constitution, planting socialism, making us a nation of takers rather than rugged individualists who believe you will only git mah 'gun' when you pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.
    I have no use for unions, private or public. But I do not believe that is a reason to insist that unarmed teachers be killed by armed attackers.

    So many right wingers have spent so much time regurgitating such tripe it is amusing to now see them thinking enough teachers will arm themselves to do on the cheap what should be done by professionals.
    I think many of us would prefer that all gun free zones be abolished as a first step. Then let each school board decide how best to protect their students. As we type back and forth states are beginning to change the laws to allow teachers the right to carry concealed weapons. In one place a CCW trainer is offering free training classes to teachers.

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    especially those addled old biddies that think FDR saved the nation with his socialist manifesto...
    He is not quite at the root of today's problems but he is close to it. FDR and FDO used the same clever method to stay in power. Both used policies that pretend to help while actually keeping as many people dependent as possible. The only lasting effect was to grow the size of the federal government and to create the political party of government.

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    That is exactly how the Arizona shooting was stopped he gun either jammed or he was reloading. If they do not have 30 or one hundred round clips they would have to reload. The point is a 9mm isnt going to stop a person with a 30 round clip it is simple math and that math is 3 to1 in favor of the person who can spray rounds. Oh by the way the peron at the arizona shooting with the gun could not get a shot off
    What do you mean by "spray" rounds?

    If one person with a weapon is insufficient then perhaps two or three or four is the better choice.

    Don't be diferted. What do you mean by "spray" rounds?

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    What do you mean by "spray" rounds?

    If one person with a weapon is insufficient then perhaps two or three or four is the better choice.

    Don't be diferted. What do you mean by "spray" rounds?
    Well if I had a 30 or 100 round clip that means I do not have to have a target I can engage multiple targets as fast as the gun shoots, or as fast as I can pull the trigger. I.E. the term spray rounds in a crowded area. Much like what happened in Colorado. Now in Newton he pretty much engaged targets one at a time.

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Well if I had a 30 or 100 round clip that means I do not have to have a target I can engage multiple targets as fast as the gun shoots, or as fast as I can pull the trigger. I.E. the term spray rounds in a crowded area. Much like what happened in Colorado. Now in Newton he pretty much engaged targets one at a time.
    Okay. So you mean pull the trigger as fast as possible.

    Why can't a responder do the same back? I was once a good shooter. I could get ten aimed shots off in under 20 seconds. Anyone who has consistently trained and put rounds down range could do the same.
    If the shooter has large capacity magazines there is all the more reason to return fire. It focuses his attention or it kills him.

  9. #109
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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Earlier I wrote, "We all have the right to defend ourselves. That right includes teachers. We can deal with the right of self defense as a separate issue form their being members in public sector unions"

    The Supreme Court has already ruled that we don't have the right to carry firearms where ever and when ever we chose, that this right can be restricted... the Supreme Court is far from liberal and the author of that opinion is referred to as the intellectual anchor and strict constructionist of the conservatives.


    I cannot say whether it is courts or liberal politicians who came up with the idea of gun free zones but the mass murderers sure love them. There have been about 60 mass killings involving firearms in the last twenty years. All, or very nearly all, have occurred in designated gun free zones.

    Designated gun free but not gun free, there were armed Officers in most of the scenarios. Problem was in the case of schools the ability to identify the mass murderer BEFORE he started killing people. Harden the school makes more sense than thinking the socialist teachers will arm themselves and train to the level of expertise to be effective in a school shooting.


    Yeah. That is what I want when someone is shooting at me. Pepper spray? What range does pepper spray have?

    Depends on the spray, I have to ask, are you a teacher? School janitor? Most have routinely spoken against guns in the classroom. Rather than make CCW in schools a push from the outside why not let the teachers decide?


    Why don't we agree that teachers may defend themselves and if you want to go after a gunman with pepper spray instead of a firearm that is you prerogative.

    Why don't we agree to let the teachers decide what they want in the way of improved school security?



    I have no use for unions, private or public. But I do not believe that is a reason to insist that unarmed teachers be killed by armed attackers.

    You are entitled to your opinion.


    I think many of us would prefer that all gun free zones be abolished as a first step. Then let each school board decide how best to protect their students. As we type back and forth states are beginning to change the laws to allow teachers the right to carry concealed weapons. In one place a CCW trainer is offering free training classes to teachers.
    I'd suggest the state politicians remain on the sideline until the teachers, school boards and professional educators decide what is best and then work to see the money is available to create a truly effective security zone around schools. the point I try to make is after decades of calling teachers everything but loyal Americans NOW 'conservatives' are trying to claim enough teachers will strap-on and train up to a level to defend against a body armored attacker.

    I'd say these 'conservatives' don't have real safety in mind but pushing an agenda to end gun free zones, nevermind the vast majority of teachers will forgo arming themselves.

    If the teachers and school administrators were demanding the right to CCW in schools that would be one thing, but instead it is right wing politicians.

    Some of my answers are in your quote, I didn't do a very good job of designating them, but you can see what you didn't type....
    Last edited by notquiteright; 12-27-12 at 12:14 AM. Reason: noting my answers are in the original post

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    Re: Firearm Found Inside Mpls. School Staff Memberís Locker

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I'd suggest the state politicians remain on the sideline until the teachers, school boards and professional educators decide what is best and then work to see the money is available to create a truly effective security zone around schools. the point I try to make is after decades of calling teachers everything but loyal Americans NOW 'conservatives' are trying to claim enough teachers will strap-on and train up to a level to defend against a body armored attacker.

    I'd say these 'conservatives' don't have real safety in mind but pushing an agenda to end gun free zones, nevermind the vast majority of teachers will forgo arming themselves.

    If the teachers and school administrators were demanding the right to CCW in schools that would be one thing, but instead it is right wing politicians.

    Some of my answers are in your quote, I didn't do a very good job of designating them, but you can see what you didn't type....
    Yeah. That was a useful exercise.

    Do you agree that the majority, if not all, of the mass murders in the last twenty years, where guns were used have occurred in gun free zones?

    Do you believe in choice? Does a woman have a right to choose...life versus death for herself and her school children who may be murdered in a gun free zone?

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