• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

[h=1]Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'[/h]So, apparently three senators are upset that a Hollywood movie is less than 100% factually accurate. In other news, one M. Mouse is revealed to be a cartoon rodent and dinosaurs can't really be cloned from DNA locked in amber for millions of years.

Really? Is this what members of Congress are drawing a salary for doing?

I respect John McCain as someone who has a much more valuable insight on the use of torture than the rest of us.

Dianne Feinstein has the highest security clearance in the senate and would know the specifics of the Bin Laden hunt.

I think their point is that the film depicts specific intelligence being gathered using torture, when, in fact, that specific piece of intelligence may have been gathered through other methods. Of course, the senators can only complain about this in the most general sense.

I don't care. I would rather believe that many bad guys were tortured in the hunt for Bin Laden. Hell, I'd rather see Bin Laden shot while he begs for his life.
 
I respect John McCain as someone who has a much more valuable insight on the use of torture than the rest of us.

Dianne Feinstein has the highest security clearance in the senate and would know the specifics of the Bin Laden hunt.

I think their point is that the film depicts specific intelligence being gathered using torture, when, in fact, that specific piece of intelligence may have been gathered through other methods. Of course, the senators can only complain about this in the most general sense.

I don't care. I would rather believe that many bad guys were tortured in the hunt for Bin Laden. Hell, I'd rather see Bin Laden shot while he begs for his life.

If the Legend of Abbottabad were actually true, you might have had your wish. If they had actually come upon and captured the man (they didn't because he had been dead for years), they would have returned him to the US and paraded him down Broadway with the former mayor Giuliani flogging him with a whip for the adulating crowds made up of people like you.

But the Legend is only that, and a myth too. Its purpose was to change the subject, rally the brainwashed multitudes, and glorify for those multitudes the Global War On Terror.
 
Is being locked in a box all by yourself for months considered torture?

You could lock your brother or sister in a box, and then ask them when you finally let them out. Perhaps you should consider trying that, as it seems you are unable to figure certain things out by yourself--you need to be told by some authority figure so that you might 'understand'.
 
You could lock your brother or sister in a box, and then ask them when you finally let them out. Perhaps you should consider trying that, as it seems you are unable to figure certain things out by yourself--you need to be told by some authority figure so that you might 'understand'.

Why the personal attack?
 
Why the personal attack?

Well it was not intended as a personal attack, but merely a comment on your apparent position here regarding torture. Perhaps I've misinterpreted your position?

If you actually wonder if locking somebody in a box is a form of torture, I can only assume that you condone torture, do not recognize it on your own, and require an interpretation by the state to tell you what is right and what is wrong.

I hope I am misinterpreting your position. :peace
 
Well it was not intended as a personal attack, but merely a comment on your apparent position here regarding torture. Perhaps I've misinterpreted your position?

If you actually wonder if locking somebody in a box is a form of torture, I can only assume that you condone torture, do not recognize it on your own, and require an interpretation by the state to tell you what is right and what is wrong.

I hope I am misinterpreting your position. :peace

My tact with Boo Radley has been to discuss the moral argument. Moral arguments are always a matter of ends and means. I have also show how the same act can be called several different things, with a subjective interpretation of the specific details of each situation.

You, on the other hand, have stepped into an argument you clearly did not read and sniped at me that I must not understand things without someone in authority explaining it to me? Oh, the irony.

Would you like to join the debate concerning the moral argument, or would you like to go back to assuming that I condone torture (which I have repeatedly stated I do not) and that I am stupid?
 
My tact with Boo Radley has been to discuss the moral argument. Moral arguments are always a matter of ends and means. I have also show how the same act can be called several different things, with a subjective interpretation of the specific details of each situation.

You, on the other hand, have stepped into an argument you clearly did not read and sniped at me that I must not understand things without someone in authority explaining it to me? Oh, the irony.

Would you like to join the debate concerning the moral argument, or would you like to go back to assuming that I condone torture (which I have repeatedly stated I do not) and that I am stupid?

Thank you for the invitation!

Yes, I would. Torture is wrong and illegal. It is immoral and illegal. What more can I say?
 
Thank you for the invitation!

Yes, I would. Torture is wrong and illegal. It is immoral and illegal. What more can I say?

Then we have to define "torture." What is torture?
 
Incorrect about what? Be clear.

I thought you knew what you wrote and could follow. My mistake. You said "the only fact" and I said bat was incorrect noting other, facts.
 
I thought you knew what you wrote and could follow. My mistake. You said "the only fact" and I said bat was incorrect noting other, facts.


You said "bat" was incorrect? Do you do this intentionally? In any case Joe, what you are providing is your opinion, nothing else. Period.
 
You said "bat" was incorrect? Do you do this intentionally? In any case Joe, what you are providing is your opinion, nothing else. Period.

No. I seem to have trouble with the iPad.

And no, there are more than one fact. It is a fact, not an opinion, that we called water boarding torture long before Iraq. It is your side trying to redefine torture. Not me.
 
No. I seem to have trouble with the iPad.

And no, there are more than one fact. It is a fact, not an opinion, that we called water boarding torture long before Iraq. It is your side trying to redefine torture. Not me.


I remember long ago we went through this comparing the 'waterboarding' that the Japanese did in WWII, and the VC did in Nam which led to this definition you are talking about here. It was shown to you then that the two methods are not comparable, and regardless it doesn't matter anyway. It happened to three people in the entirety of the WoT by the US personnel. Now you'll excuse me if I don't shed crocodile tears for KSM. And the fact that at least a thread of information led to the ultimate tracking down and killing of OBL is irrefutable fact. Even Obama, and his spokesdoofus Carney admitted as much. Seems that only hard liners like you seem to have a problem with it.
 
Liberal progressives only interpret things subjectively
sorry, torture is torture.
Point is that bottom line is that we now live in a highly polarized society in which my guy does something = GOOD! your guy does the same sort of thing = BAD! This is why progressives need so many shades of grey.
There are a few big differences like torture but on the whole Democrats and Republicans don't differ a whole helluva lot on foreign policy. This years Presidential foreign policy debate proved that.
 
I remember long ago we went through this comparing the 'waterboarding' that the Japanese did in WWII, and the VC did in Nam which led to this definition you are talking about here. It was shown to you then that the two methods are not comparable, and regardless it doesn't matter anyway. It happened to three people in the entirety of the WoT by the US personnel. Now you'll excuse me if I don't shed crocodile tears for KSM. And the fact that at least a thread of information led to the ultimate tracking down and killing of OBL is irrefutable fact. Even Obama, and his spokesdoofus Carney admitted as much. Seems that only hard liners like you seem to have a problem with it.

No, it really wasn't. Some are just too willing to believe things not true.

Nor is anyone asking you to she'd tears. Only understand that we hurt not only him, but the people who do it, and remove any illusion that we are a moral people. And no ones who supports this type of thing can be Christian or of any real faith. Torture is the definition of evil.
 
No, it really wasn't. Some are just too willing to believe things not true.

Nor is anyone asking you to she'd tears. Only understand that we hurt not only him, but the people who do it, and remove any illusion that we are a moral people. And no ones who supports this type of thing can be Christian or of any real faith. Torture is the definition of evil.

Although you are entitled to your opinion, the bolded part is astonishing in its hubris. Who are you to judge?
 
Although you are entitled to your opinion, the bolded part is astonishing in its hubris. Who are you to judge?

Yes, I remember where Jesus states that torturing is the way into heaven. Got ya!

:coffeepap
 
Didn't say anything close to that now did I?

I think you did. You said it was hubris to think it wasn't Christian. Love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek doesn't fit it well with torture. I don't think my remark is all that controversial. It is immoral to torture.
 
I think you did. You said it was hubris to think it wasn't Christian. Love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek doesn't fit it well with torture. I don't think my remark is all that controversial. It is immoral to torture.

No, I said it was hubris for you to judge...Maybe the comprehension thing is yours.
 
No, I said it was hubris for you to judge...Maybe the comprehension thing is yours.

It's a reasonable judgement. And based on the actual teachings of the faith.
 
It's a reasonable judgement. And based on the actual teachings of the faith.


Doesn't the faith also teach that you don't have the power to judge? I think it does.

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:"

-Luke 6:37
 
Doesn't the faith also teach that you don't have the power to judge? I think it does.

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:"

-Luke 6:37

Even that us context. I can't condemn you, as that s God's providence. But it takes a judgement in order to judge what is right and wrong. To judge what it means to be Christian.
 
Even that us context. I can't condemn you, as that s God's providence. But it takes a judgement in order to judge what is right and wrong. To judge what it means to be Christian.

Were you not judging others when you said:

Boo said:
...And no one who supports this type of thing can be Christian or of any real faith....

Because if you were not I'd like you to explain how it is that you can make such a blanket generalization about others and skirt your own fail on this.
 
Then we have to define "torture." What is torture?

Torture is assault upon the individual, over a period of time. A most unconsensual situation.

Certainly society can invoke due process to detain somebody temporarily, but the due process must be strict and open.
 
Back
Top Bottom