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Thread: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    All of this is an emotional matter for all involved and that is why focusing on the emotion is pointless...

    The point is that people are trying to make torture out to be a recruiting tool (as a means to be anti USA) to people that are recruited for far less reasons such as just being present where they don't want you to be.
    Not if the issue is why people join the cause. Discussing cause and effect must take into account the emotional response. And frankly, I'm not sure we have a full understanding of reasons. Israel's use of excessive force seems to create more than it removes, for example. Again, understanding the consequences of actions is important. We can add to or decrease our woes depending on our actions. Seem a prudent person keeps that in mind.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Certainly the Muslims would never torture anyone. That wouldn't fit in the with the liberal requirement for worship of all enemies of the United States.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Certainly the Muslims would never torture anyone. That wouldn't fit in the with the liberal requirement for worship of all enemies of the United States.
    Well, that was a stupid comment. So disappointing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not if the issue is why people join the cause. Discussing cause and effect must take into account the emotional response. And frankly, I'm not sure we have a full understanding of reasons. Israel's use of excessive force seems to create more than it removes, for example. Again, understanding the consequences of actions is important. We can add to or decrease our woes depending on our actions. Seem a prudent person keeps that in mind.
    Fair enough...
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    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Pot meet... umm... meet... ?
    You hit the nail on the head right there boy let me tell you what. I have read it many times . . . Pot complains about being called, "black" . . . while at the same time, the pot is calling the kettle "black" . . . in the very same sentence. Especially a certain pot. Many times I have read words from that very same pot claiming his kettle is using a straw man, whilst the pot is using a straw man himself . . . go figure.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Well, that was a stupid comment. So disappointing.
    Agreed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    You hit the nail on the head right there boy let me tell you what. I have read it many times . . . Pot complains about being called, "black" . . . while at the same time, the pot is calling the kettle "black" and in the very same sentence. Especially a certain pot. Many times I have read words from that very same pot claiming his kettle is using a straw man, whilst the pot is using a straw man himself . . . go figure.
    What if the pot is black... this is certainly a dynamic issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    While I will agree that torture works in some cases, I find it hard to believe that you have been personally afforded the counter-intelligence that is substantiating THREE QUARTERS "of what we know about Al Queda's senior leadership" was obtained through, new name for it, wait for it . . . Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.
    1. I think you need to take some time to go understand the conversation you are having, before you attempt to have it. Counter Intelligence is (broadly speaking) a portion of Intelligence that involves (wait for it) countering other intelligence services (to include now non-state actors). Interrogating someone for information that is then analyzed and fit into a bigger picture is Intelligence. And the EIT program was a SAP at the time, anyway.

    2. That's not me saying it, it's the directors of the CIA and the program that have said it. Perhaps you could look in to people what people who ACTUALLY know what they are talking about say.

    I had to rewrite your following sentence without the parenthesis to see exactly what you were claiming here:

    Man, when you were a PFC you were God.
    No, when I was a PFC I was a boot in SOI, and then as a LCpl I deployed a couple of times. That's all. You got upset because what I was seeing in Iraq (that we were winning) did not match what you wanted reality to be, and then you claimed that my account had been taken over by some officer because 'I wrote too well' for an enlisted man

    Oh yeah, I thought they were Enhanced Interrogation Techniques?
    What the CIA did were Enhanced Interrogation Techniques. Throw a guy lightly against a fake wall designed to make aloud crash in order to convince him he was being thrown much harder than he was. Simulate drowning by pouring water on his face. Etc.

    What the Iraqi police did, however, was torture. Tie a guy up, hang him by his wrists, and then use a piece of telephone wire to strip half the daggum skin off of his back type stuff.

    Clerk typists who have a sideline as Intelligence Officer . . . Hah!
    No... an infantryman who was part of the Company Level Intelligence Cell program roll-out.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. I think you need to take some time to go understand the conversation you are having, before you attempt to have it. Counter Intelligence is (broadly speaking) a portion of Intelligence that involves (wait for it) countering other intelligence services (to include now non-state actors). Interrogating someone for information that is then analyzed and fit into a bigger picture is Intelligence.

    2. That's not me saying it, it's the directors of the CIA and the program that have said it. Perhaps you could look in to people what people who ACTUALLY know what they are talking about say.



    No, when I was a PFC I was a boot in SOI, and then as a LCpl I deployed a couple of times. That's all. You got upset because what I was seeing in Iraq (that we were winning) did not match what you wanted reality to be, and then you claimed that my account had been taken over by some officer because 'I wrote too well' for an enlisted man



    What the CIA did were Enhanced Interrogation Techniques. Throw a guy lightly against a fake wall designed to make aloud crash in order to convince him he was being thrown much harder than he was. Simulate drowning by pouring water on his face. Etc.

    What the Iraqi police did, however, was torture. Tie a guy up, hang him by his wrists, and then use a piece of telephone wire to strip half the daggum skin off of his back type stuff.



    No... an infantryman who was part of the Company Level Intelligence Cell program roll-out.
    Yeah . . . you go with that. Three Quarters Huh? That's OK, I am sure I am the only one who noticed you just made that up, but we should allow it, because we were told we got 3/4ths of Alqueda's leadership at least a 100-times by a certain administration. Your memory is failing you as it pertains to our Internet relationship. That's OK . . . you almost got it right. Seems to be a trait with you . . . and I never said anything to the effect that it must be an officer writing because (your quotes not mine, and that is so dishonest) "'I (you) wrote too well' for an enlisted man". First off, I was enlisted, and would never suggest an officer is the only member of the military who has writing ability. You are not an officer, yet you have a certain amount of skill as a wordsmith, and the fact you remember our interpersonal communications that way, seems to indicate a difference between things as they actually occur, and how you remember them. Do you often quote people and attribute words that are not actually their words, to them?

    By-the-way, that does not change the fact you have claimed you witnessed torture(does the UCMJ condone that yet? Witnesses at Abu Ghraib got prison time, and the instance(s) you describe must be really secret . . . except for our little forum (good thing we can keep a secret). Perhaps, if you write a book during your next reply I will forget (and anyone paying attention) all your claims (passive aggressive sarcasm). Perhaps if you part my words out sentence by sentence in your reply we can bury the evidence of you just making claims to make claims. You should be happy you fool most folks . . . but you have to understand . . . some of us really pay attention. You can fool some of the people . . . and sometimes not.

    Post Script . . . if you did not defend yourself so ardently and make up stories, you wouldn't look so guilty. Let me give you an example of how a passive defense can work (plus it is better than just making crap up and you never have to remember a past lie):
    CHARGE: You hate your country.
    RESPONSE: You are wrong.
    Also, we won in Iraq?

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    Yeah . . . you go with that. Three Quarters Huh? That's OK, I am sure I am the only one who noticed you just made that up, but we should allow it, because we were told we got 3/4ths of Alqueda's leadership at least a 100-times by a certain administration.
    I didn't make it up. Again, maybe you should pay attention to the people who actually know. Later as our other capabilities improved, we learned more from a myriad of other sources. But in those first couple of years yeah, our targeting of Core AQ Leadership was pretty dependent upon information gleaned through the EIT program.

    As for getting the leadership - Al Qaeda is like any other organization; when they lose someone, they have someone else come fill the billet.

    and I never said anything to the effect that it must be an officer writing because (your quotes not mine, and that is so dishonest) "'I (you) wrote too well' for an enlisted man".
    Ah how I wish Whistlestopper was still up so I could go link you making precisely that argument. I was foolish enough to get upset with your poo-throwing at the time, and went into the moderator forum to give a long laundry list of proofs of my identity (they said the fact that my IP address was coming out of Iraq was good enough for them). Go ask radcen or boo radley if you like - they were part of the mod staff there at the time and may recall the incident.

    By-the-way, that does not change the fact you have claimed you witnessed torture(does the UCMJ condone that yet?
    No it certainly does not. However, the Iraqi's didn't exactly fall under the UCMJ, and as they were a soveriegn nation at the time, we couldn't exactly arrest them for it. we took the guys afterwards, gave them medical care, and reported it up the chain like we were supposed to. And we also went out and closed down the bomb factories that the IP's suddenly had brand new reporting on.

    Witnesses at Abu Ghraib got prison time, and the instance(s) you describe must be really secret . . . except for our little forum
    Not really. No US Personnel were involved in the torturing of prisoners that I saw. The fact that Iraqi security personnel were willing to torture captured members of AQI isn't exactly a secret. Remember, these guys were fighting a war in which AQI would target their children. You go after my kids, I probably wouldn't really give a rats butt about your special rights as an individual when I had the option, either.

    Post Script . . . if you did not defend yourself so ardently and make up stories, you wouldn't look so guilty.
    said the guy who is apparently obsessed. Go stalk someone else, creeper.

    Also, we won in Iraq?
    I would say so. Certainly the surge in Fallujah was a rather solid success.

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