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Thread: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Certainly not what I'm saying. But torture is not new, has been greatly studied. Libraries are full of material on this. The unreliability of torture is well documented. I suggest not what any politician says (though McCain has above average cred.), but cutlasses, verifiable evidence is what should matter.
    I was speaking to the claim that EIT were used in the process of intel gathering with the string of intel that led to Bin Laden, not regarding the effectiveness of such techniques comparative to others

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which doesn't preclude motivating those who would not have been inclined otherwise. We're not dealing with a set membership.
    Those that are "motovated" to join don't need torture to motivate them... they already hate us and all they need is any nudge.

    Torture is just an excuse that apologists make.
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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I was speaking to the claim that EIT were used in the process of intel gathering with the string of intel that led to Bin Laden, not regarding the effectiveness of such techniques comparative to others
    I think the timeline handles that fairly well, but the burden is in those who say it did contribute. And you have to show we cold not and did not get it any other way. It is about showing verifiable evidence and not just claims, which both sides can furnish ad nausum.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Those that are "motovated" to join don't need torture to motivate them... they already hate us and all they need is any nudge.

    Torture is just an excuse that apologists make.
    It's a pretty big motivator. Not an excuse. You wrongly torture one if mine, and we got issues. Ever hear of the hayfields and McCoys?

    The thing s actions matter. Pretending they don't is what an apologist does.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    So, apparently three senators are upset that a Hollywood movie is less than 100% factually accurate. In other news, one M. Mouse is revealed to be a cartoon rodent and dinosaurs can't really be cloned from DNA locked in amber for millions of years.

    Really? Is this what members of Congress are drawing a salary for doing?
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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's a pretty big motivator. Not an excuse. You wrongly torture one if mine, and we got issues. Ever hear of the hayfields and McCoys?

    The thing s actions matter. Pretending they don't is what an apologist does.
    Hatfields... but that could have been a typo now that I see where the keys are.

    They could use anything... being in Saudi Arabia was enough to galvanize an entire terror organization against us.

    Torture? Just an excuse.
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Just want to check something. Words or a politician saying they were used and gained info from them is untrustworthy because its a politician with a political motivation to say that

    But a politician whose been staunchly anti torture to any degree for decades is inherently trustworthy and reliable in his statements because he agreed with someone who he usually agrees with on this issue?

    That makes TONS of sense....
    Not exactly, no. What I said was that when two politicians who disagree on almost everything find common ground, it is time to sit up and take notice.
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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I was speaking to the claim that EIT were used in the process of intel gathering with the string of intel that led to Bin Laden, not regarding the effectiveness of such techniques comparative to others
    Intelligence was gathered from a person who was subject to EIT. That is the closest positive claim that can safely be made a bout the effectiveness of EIT as an interrogation tool in this case. Anything beyond that is based on guesses.
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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think the timeline handles that fairly well, but the burden is in those who say it did contribute. And you have to show we cold not and did not get it any other way. It is about showing verifiable evidence and not just claims, which both sides can furnish ad nausum.

    Well, that is a pretty big dishonest unprovable you have there...I don't think anyone has ever said that other interrogation techniques don't work as well, but as for some of the information that came to us about the courier, that came directly through EIT, nothing else as reported by the people that were in the damned room. Now, three people ever had waterboarding done to them, three. It is a fact that we found out who the courier was through EIT, and you are saying what? That we could have gotten the same information by serving hot chocolate, and asking pretty please? Prove that.
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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Intelligence was gathered from a person who was subject to EIT. That is the closest positive claim that can safely be made a bout the effectiveness of EIT as an interrogation tool in this case. Anything beyond that is based on guesses.
    And what was the intel gathered Red?
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