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Thread: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Says who? You don't get to dictate the hypothetical.

    Look, I'm not saying we should torture first or regularly, but when nothing else is working and the guy has the location and combination to the bomb... then one's gotta do what one's gotta do, that's a moral imperative.
    Logic always gets to enter into a hypothetical. And logically, the odds that you'd have the right person with the right information is nearly impossible to start with. Again, those who were actually in the situation (CP's unverified not withstanding), say differently than you above. There is much written on this. Torture is just not reliable for gathering information in any situation.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And logically, the odds that you'd have the right person with the right information is nearly impossible to start with.
    While true, a global terror network being hunted by all of the free world's intelligence agencies, in the aftermath of the worst terror attack in history, just might produce a couple.

    Torture is just not reliable for gathering information in any situation.
    Wrong. When the information is verifiable, it is very reliable, because one confirms before one re-initiates. I have provided real world, documented, examples of torture extracting accurate information, when that information was verifiable. You continue to deny this reality in your quest for absolutism. Give up the absolutism, accept the grey, see reality.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 01-08-13 at 12:46 PM.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    It is sad that this does not occur to you.
    Really? You can't understand something and you mangle logic and reason... thus others should get tortured? This is why intellectuals fear leftists.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    really? You can't understand something and you mangle logic and reason... Thus others should get tortured?
    w. T. F?

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    w. T. F?
    What should occur to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    When you choose Option 1 over the equivalent Option 2 that is that poor reasoning as identifying what is the root of accomplishing the task AND/OR you self-identifying as a sadist ****. It is sad that this does not occur to you.
    You wish others would get tortured because their argument is beyond your comprehension. This is why intellectuals fear leftists.



    If you meant that other means can always accomplish what torture can. Well, that's just wishful BS in a blind quest for absolutism.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    What should occur to me?
    That you are using poor reasoning AND/OR are self-identifying as a sadistic ****.

    You wish others would get tortured because their argument is beyond your comprehension.
    W…T…Fffffuuuu? I made absolutely no such indication that I wish for someone to get tortured.
    If you meant that other means can always accomplish what torture can. Well, that's just wishful BS in a blind quest for absolutism.
    You have provided evidence otherwise?

    Because you keep hammering on things being “verifiable”. See, that means the info is out there! So rather than taking the lazy, morally bankrupt, [and oft ineffective] route I suggest putting in the effort and the thinking to get the job done.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    While true, a global terror network being hunted by all of the free world's intelligence agencies, in the aftermath of the worst terror attack in history, just might produce a couple.

    Wrong. When the information is verifiable, it is very reliable, because one confirms before one re-initiates. I have provided real world, documented, examples of torture extracting accurate information, when that information was verifiable. You continue to deny this reality in your quest for absolutism. Give up the absolutism, accept the grey, see reality.
    Torture as useful for engaging militarily with or without confirmation or not, the ones to do torture cannot use "I followed orders" in the court.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    While true, a global terror network being hunted by all of the free world's intelligence agencies, in the aftermath of the worst terror attack in history, just might produce a couple.
    Not likely, not and we know who they are.

    Wrong. When the information is verifiable, it is very reliable, because one confirms before one re-initiates. I have provided real world, documented, examples of torture extracting accurate information, when that information was verifiable. You continue to deny this reality in your quest for absolutism. Give up the absolutism, accept the grey, see reality.
    You mean like al Libi's intel?

    No, you have to take steps to verify. This takes time. Once found not true, you have to start over, thus wasting that time. You may eventually get it, assuming all the improbable happens, the right person at the right time. But, he will be rested now, and ready to lie again. It all takes time, menaing that ticking bomb most likely went off.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Why thank you!

    Yes, I must stand corrected-- you merely POST as though you live in The World According to Dick & Dubya. I thought I was having flashbacks to 2003, hearing from Curveball's handler, or something.

    The only thing that impresses is your condoning torture and military aggression, and claiming to be a libertarian. I have known for years that labels and categories, especially regarding politics, are utterly misleading. In the end, it is a person's character and moral stances that define them.

    You have made it pefectly clear where you stand--on the side of torture and the fraud known as the Global War On Terror.
    Well, I was a misguided 20 year old when I voted for him. People learn as time goes on, you see. You haven't exhibited much here, aside from just random posts about nothing.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lol ... what? The point of my post is that if you did all those things: I'll tell you whatever it is you want to hear regardless of whether it's the truth or not. That salient point couldn't have been clearer. So, as it stands, the 'deep interrogation techniques' are reliable in that I'll tell you something - true, false, make belief - to make it stop. Not that they'll get the truth and nothing but the truth.

    Now please, tell me about the 24 style scenario where there is a nuclear bomb strapped with a clock counting down and we've just so happened to catch the guy who set it up 30 minutes before the bomb is set to go off. If it's good enough, I'll write a script and sell it to the writers of Criminal Minds. They tend to use corny make belief story lines like that these days.
    So, why is it that battered women stay with their husbands? For that matter, what do you know about Battered Women Syndrome? What do you know about Stockholm Syndrome? What do you know about Traumatic Bonding? What do you know about even basic psychology when the mind if threatened in traumatic situations?

    Apparently, nothing.

    You see, when asking only questions with known answers, a sense of omniscience grows in the subject for their captors. Hell, police use this tactic during routine interrogations. They'll ask a series of questions they already know with fair certainty to test the bounds of where the lies start, and then they'll ask the entire battery of questions multiple times, in different orders, just to try to trip up the subject. Add in a little mental anguish and some traumatic bonding, and you have a fairly good recipe for intel gathering. This **** works. You don't have to believe me, and it's pretty obvious you're not going to no matter what, but it does work. It's not just simply beating someone until they talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Did you see the movie Argo?

    Apparently the Iranians like to stage mock firing squad executions. They pull the trigger, but there is no round in the chamber. Yes, it causes fainting and the soiling of underwear, but that's about it.

    So that's where you're at, eh Gonzo.
    Ah, yes. A 25 second scene from a movie. You got me. I must not know a thing about anything. I guess I give up. How can I combat such a devastating technique like quoting movies?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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