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Thread: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

  1. #421
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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I have already presented one real-world case where torture for verifiable information worked. I can provide numerous other examples.
    1) I am late to the show, care to lend a link so I don’t have to sift through 42 pages trying to find this?
    2) Again, define “works”. Because it certainly is important to your assertion.
    3) Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    4) What of the Not-Being-A-Peice-Of-****-Subhuman option for the example scenario you gave?

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    1) I am late to the show, care to lend a link so I don’t have to sift through 42 pages trying to find this?
    2) Again, define “works”. Because it certainly is important to your assertion.
    3) Anecdotal evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    4) What of the Not-Being-A-Peice-Of-****-Subhuman option for the example scenario you gave?

    I dunno why this is beyond so many people. It's very simple. If the information is verifiable, one WILL get what they want via torture, given the ability to verify the wanted information.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Wrong. If a guy has the combination to a ticking time bomb - it's time to get that verifiable information.
    If it's ticking time, one only needs one lie and you've lost. See the link I gave above from those who actually dealt with ticking time situations and said torture was not the way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I dunno why this is beyond so many people. It's very simple. If the information is verifiable, one WILL get what they want via torture, given the ability to verify the wanted information.
    Speaking of being ‘beyond’ getting, here is a quite simple and straightforward answer to issues that lay in your position. Again.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    See, this is why people are clueless on this subject! Let me explain:


    Torture for VERIFIABLE INFORMATION works. If the person gives one a false answer, one finds out and the torture gets worse. Eventually, every time, the person gives the information that is being looked for, it is verified as true, and the torture stops; thus, its effectiveness (and morality) in a ticking time bomb scenario.
    The more you type, the more it looks like you simply enjoy torture. Zimbardo observed that at Stanford back in the 70's, so I guess I should not be surprised.

    Let me get this straight Ecofarm--you possess certain knowlege in your own mind or within your resources, and then you choose somebody to torture to either confirm or deny what you already know?

    Egads man, was your previous life during the Inquisition? Were you employed by the Roman Church?

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Speaking of being ‘beyond’ getting, here is a quite simple and straightforward answer to issues that lay in your position. Again.
    I'm not referring to movies, or cases that we lack information regarding. I'm not doin' the CT thing, or trying to claim that torture lead to info that caught Bin Laden. I'm cutting through all that political BS to a simple truth: Torture for verifiable information works. Denying reality for political purpose is sad.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If it's ticking time, one only needs one lie and you've lost. See the link I gave above from those who actually dealt with ticking time situations and said torture was not the way.
    No, not one lie and you've lost. That's BS. Let's say we are looking for the location of the bomb. If it's not there, we up the torture. We WILL get the location of the bomb, eventually - that's really not up for debate.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, not one lie and you've lost. That's BS. Let's say we are looking for the location of the bomb. If it's not there, we up the torture. We WILL get the location of the bomb, eventually - that's really not up for debate.
    If there is a ticking time bomb, the time you're checking it will go off with the lie. If you have time, there's no ticking. You'll get after it goes off. If you're serious, you want to use the most effective methods, not the least. And torture is shown time and again to be the least.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm not referring to movies, or cases that we lack information regarding. I'm not doin' the CT thing, or trying to claim that torture lead to info that caught Bin Laden. I'm cutting through all that political BS to a simple truth: Torture for verifiable information works. Denying reality for political purpose is sad.
    Option 1: Use torture and use the other information you have. Get the job done.
    Option 2: Don’t use torture, use the other information you have. Get the job done.

    When you choose Option 1 over the equivalent Option 2 that is that poor reasoning as identifying what is the root of accomplishing the task AND/OR you self-identifying as a sadist ****. It is sad that this does not occur to you.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If there is a ticking time bomb, the time you're checking it will go off with the lie.
    Says who? You don't get to dictate the hypothetical.

    Look, I'm not saying we should torture first or regularly, but when nothing else is working and the guy has the location and combination to the bomb... then one's gotta do what one's gotta do, that's a moral imperative.

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