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Thread: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Huh, I've always been hesitant to make judgments about whether others are truly "Christian" or not or have a real relationship with God or not. I've always figured that was between them and God, but you're saying I have no need for such hesitancy. I can determine, as you have, who is really a Christian and who isn't?
    I think there are certain precepts you must adhere to, by definition, to actually be any specific thing. A homosexual who can't stare sex with the same sex, for example, is not homosexual. So while I actually agree with what you write above, Christians are actually called to live by some precepts. Torture cannot be found in the ideology anywhere. By definition, one who supports torture is not following Christian ideology, thus not Christian. Yes, we will have to personally answer to God, who makes the final judgement, the one that matters, we are not incapable of reasoned thought r reasonable judgements.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think there are certain precepts you must adhere to, by definition, to actually be any specific thing. A homosexual who can't stare sex with the same sex, for example, is not homosexual. So while I actually agree with what you write above, Christians are actually called to live by some precepts. Torture cannot be found in the ideology anywhere. By definition, one who supports torture is not following Christian ideology, thus not Christian. Yes, we will have to personally answer to God, who makes the final judgement, the one that matters, we are not incapable of reasoned thought r reasonable judgements.
    I thought a homosexual was a homosexual regardless of their actions. You're confusing me. On one hand, you're saying you agree with me but on the other, you tell me you're quite comfortable making that very judgment. I trust that these judgements can also be fairly made in other discussions outside of this one? Right? I ask because I see Christians criticized for saying things like the Westborrow Baptist folks aren't really Christians. Can I send those critics your way?

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I thought a homosexual was a homosexual regardless of their actions. You're confusing me. On one hand, you're saying you agree with me but on the other, you tell me you're quite comfortable making that very judgment. I trust that these judgements can also be fairly made in other discussions outside of this one? Right? I ask because I see Christians criticized for saying things like the Westborrow Baptist folks aren't really Christians. Can I send those critics your way?
    I wasn't actually speaking about actions. If I like the opposite sex and don't desire someone f the same same sex, I'm not a homosexual no matter what I say.

    And yes, I agree faith is personal. But, ideologies of all kinds have clear definitions of what makes one a follower of that ideology. If we cannot make that judgement, how do we know when we are one?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Christians are actually called to live by some precepts. Torture cannot be found in the ideology anywhere. By definition, one who supports torture is not following Christian ideology, thus not Christian.
    Do you have the passage handy where Jesus referred to 'torture'?

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you have the passage handy where Jesus referred to 'torture'?
    Do you? But does turn the other cheek sound like torturous is ok? I'm sorry, but amount of hackers will show Jesus too would torture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I wasn't actually speaking about actions. If I like the opposite sex and don't desire someone f the same same sex, I'm not a homosexual no matter what I say.

    And yes, I agree faith is personal. But, ideologies of all kinds have clear definitions of what makes one a follower of that ideology. If we cannot make that judgement, how do we know when we are one?
    Big difference between making that judgment for yourself and making it for others.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Big difference between making that judgment for yourself and making it for others.
    It's the same process. I can't read mines, but we can match actions against ideology. To a point, we can make some judgement.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you?
    It was you who made the claim that "By definition, one who supports torture is not following Christian ideology, thus not Christian".

    By whose definition?

    Yet you also said "Torture cannot be found in the ideology anywhere".

    Do you actually have a clue as to what you are talking about or is this another instance of the infinite monkey theorem?

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It was you who made the claim that "By definition, one who supports torture is not following Christian ideology, thus not Christian".

    By whose definition?

    Yet you also said "Torture cannot be found in the ideology anywhere".

    Do you actually have a clue as to what you are talking about or is this another instance of the infinite monkey theorem?
    By definition of the religion. They all have precepts they follow. They don't have to mention torture specifically to know it is part of Christianity.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Torture is assault upon the individual, over a period of time. A most unconsensual situation.

    Certainly society can invoke due process to detain somebody temporarily, but the due process must be strict and open.
    The legal definition of assault is "an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact." What what we know about prison, the act of being sentenced is assault.

    The way you use the world "assault," it is clear you mean "battery." The legal definition of battery is "an intentional unpermitted act causing harmful or offensive contact with the "person" of another." An uncooperative prisoner who does not wish to enter his cell will be forcefully placed in his cell (or into another cell, in solitary), which constitutes battery by the definition.

    You permit that "society" can decide what is right and what is wrong, making the intentional act of a judge handing sentencing down unto an individual (which creates an apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact) and then ordering the bailiff to remand that person into custody (an intentional unpermitted act causing harmful or offensive contact) to be fine and dandy. In any other context, those actions constitute assault and battery, by you accept the definition that this is acceptable and permitted. When that person then goes to prison (where he may get physically battered, raped, or killed), that is ok with you... because some guy in a robe said it was. And then that person may be placed in a tiny cell and cut off from human contact for MONTHS, all on the declaration of a non-elected private citizen (the warden)... and you're ok with that!

    So, my question is why do you not allow for a non-physically harmful method of interrogation? If the word "torture" is defined as "things Henry David thinks are torture," you would have a point, but that isn't how the world works. If the entire basis of your argument comes down to the consent of the governed (which it does), then what makes the Judicial Branch the end-all-be-all power to decide that a warden can essentially torture an individual as he sees fit? The entire line of logic rests on circular reasoning - torture is defined as those things that have been defined as torture. Everything else is "not torture," including some of the very same acts, only when carried out by other parties.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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