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Thread: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    You're still missing the point. Not everyone who plots to kill someone is called a murderer. For example, a military operation, or a state execution.
    Not missing it at all. That is a different thing by definition. We don't call it murder because it isn't murder. There re clear distinctions.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And you mistake your ideological labels for facts.
    Not at all. It is a fact, not a label, that we called weatherboarding torture long before Iraq. It is your side who have tried to redefine for political reasons, not me.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not at all. It is a fact, not a label, that we called weatherboarding torture long before Iraq. It is your side who have tried to redefine for political reasons, not me.
    Not quite sure what "weatherboarding" is....Sounds horrible....Oh my. Look, the only fact here, is that no one has been charged, prosecuted, or convicted of violating ANY laws, US or otherwise...So your fantasy is just that. Sorry. :
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not missing it at all. That is a different thing by definition. We don't call it murder because it isn't murder. There re clear distinctions.
    Good. You've acknowledged that we have different labels for the same acts in different circumstances.

    ...if you don't see where this is going by now, you either can't see it or don't want to see it.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not quite sure what "weatherboarding" is....Sounds horrible....Oh my. Look, the only fact here, is that no one has been charged, prosecuted, or convicted of violating ANY laws, US or otherwise...So your fantasy is just that. Sorry. :
    Your incorrect. That is but one fact.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Good. You've acknowledged that we have different labels for the same acts in different circumstances.

    ...if you don't see where this is going by now, you either can't see it or don't want to see it.
    No. Different acts have different labels. You're trying to make different acts seem like the same. They are not the same.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Different acts have different labels. You're trying to make different acts seem like the same. They are not the same.
    Killing another person is an act.

    When the government does it overseas, it's called "combat". When the government does it to one of it's own citizens it has deemed a criminal, it's called "capital punishment." When a citizen does to another citizen on purpose, that is called "murder." When a citizen does it accidentally, it is called "manslaughter." And SOMETIMES a citizen can purposefully kill someone else but it is called manslaughter, and a citizen can accidentally kill someone and they call it murder.

    The same act, with different labels.

    You're never going to win this one, Mr. Clinton.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Killing another person is an act.

    When the government does it overseas, it's called "combat". When the government does it to one of it's own citizens it has deemed a criminal, it's called "capital punishment." When a citizen does to another citizen on purpose, that is called "murder." When a citizen does it accidentally, it is called "manslaughter."

    The same act, with different labels.

    You're never going to win this one, Mr. Clinton.
    Yes, killing is an act. But murder and self defense are two different acts. Not the same act. Torture is not legal imprisonment. Two different acts with two different definitions. Throughout this you've tried to make the case that the apple and the tree frog are the same. They are not. We are not redefining murder. The same act is not murder here and self defense there. Each act is different, not the exact same, with different critieria. To accept your version is to be Mr. Clinton, saying that it is how we define acts that are different as if they were the same. They are not.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your incorrect. That is but one fact.

    Incorrect about what? Be clear.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, killing is an act. But murder and self defense are two different acts. Not the same act. Torture is not legal imprisonment. Two different acts with two different definitions. Throughout this you've tried to make the case that the apple and the tree frog are the same. They are not. We are not redefining murder. The same act is not murder here and self defense there. Each act is different, not the exact same, with different critieria. To accept your version is to be Mr. Clinton, saying that it is how we define acts that are different as if they were the same. They are not.
    Is being locked in a box all by yourself for months considered torture?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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