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Thread: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    i know how Obama blamed the Libia attack on that youtube video, wonder whats gonna happen now that the Bin Laden movie is coming out

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, we measure what was done against the definition of murder. We don't all of the sudden decide that it isn't murder any more, as was done with water boarding. We don't take an already defined and certain act and then change the definition. No.
    "What was done" is interpreted subjectively. We judge things like intent, negligence, reasonable responsibility. Killing someone may be considered murder, manslaughter, or self-defense, depending on the jury and how good of a lawyer you have.

    By the very same token, certain acts are considered torture when committed by some, but not when committed by others. Solitary confinement remains a sterling example. If I locked you in a small closet for two months, and your only contact with other another human being was the two seconds a day when food got passed to you through a slot, you would considered yourself tortured. Yet this happens in our prison system every single day, and no one calls that torture.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    "What was done" is interpreted subjectively.

    Liberal progressives only interpret things subjectively when it is their own malfeasance they wish to muddy. For example I guarantee that Boo wanted a full declaration of war from the Congress, and signed by the President to go in and unseat the Taliban from power in Afghanistan, but holds a lessor view of our involvement in Lybia, or the unilateral killing of an American turned radical Islamist in Yemen.

    Point is that bottom line is that we now live in a highly polarized society in which my guy does something = GOOD! your guy does the same sort of thing = BAD! This is why progressives need so many shades of grey.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    "What was done" is interpreted subjectively. We judge things like intent, negligence, reasonable responsibility. Killing someone may be considered murder, manslaughter, or self-defense, depending on the jury and how good of a lawyer you have.

    By the very same token, certain acts are considered torture when committed by some, but not when committed by others. Solitary confinement remains a sterling example. If I locked you in a small closet for two months, and your only contact with other another human being was the two seconds a day when food got passed to you through a slot, you would considered yourself tortured. Yet this happens in our prison system every single day, and no one calls that torture.
    No. If the act is torture, it is same no matter who commits he act. There is no subjectivity.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. If the act is torture, it is same no matter who commits he act. There is no subjectivity.

    Inflammatory definitions for political rhetorical purposes aside, was there any prosecutions of torture for those in the US that either ordered EIT, or carried it out? No. Your point is moot.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. If the act is torture, it is same no matter who commits he act. There is no subjectivity.
    And if the act is murder, it is murder no matter who commits it... but there are many shades of killing and "murder" is just one of them. Surely you agree that any time someone dies it is not automatically an act murder. Right?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Inflammatory definitions for political rhetorical purposes aside, was there any prosecutions of torture for those in the US that either ordered EIT, or carried it out? No. Your point is moot.
    You mistake getting away with something as proof it wasn't what it was. Sorry, but that doesn't work logically.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    And if the act is murder, it is murder no matter who commits it... but there are many shades of killing and "murder" is just one of them. Surely you agree that any time someone dies it is not automatically an act murder. Right?
    But each shade has clear definition. Some who plots to kill someone, carries out that plot is a murderer. No shade. Waterboarding has been been defined by US as torture. So, if you weatherboard, there is no shade. It is what it is.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But each shade has clear definition. Some who plots to kill someone, carries out that plot is a murderer. No shade. Waterboarding has been been defined by US as torture. So, if you weatherboard, there is no shade. It is what it is.
    You're still missing the point. Not everyone who plots to kill someone is called a murderer. For example, a military operation, or a state execution.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Bin Laden film attacked for 'perpetuating torture myth'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You mistake getting away with something as proof it wasn't what it was. Sorry, but that doesn't work logically.
    And you mistake your ideological labels for facts.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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