Page 16 of 26 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 251

Thread: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

  1. #151
    Sage
    AliHajiSheik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:24 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,375

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Let me know when a Ferrari opens fire on 5-10 year olds then we can have that talk. Again I would lve an answer to my question what does a person need with a 30 round or 100 round clip? You are not being rational. Just making dumb comparisons in hope that some gun nuts run to your aide
    I'm sorry you missed the point because you are against a certain size accessory to a weapon. To me it is like the gas tank in the Ferrari. If anything, I was being overly rational. Why did you avoid my point about locking up crazy people since they commit so many of these mass crimes. Where is your outrage when so many people are killed each day or is it just 5-10 year olds that you care about?

    Have any gun buyback programs actually been successful in reducing the rate of crime committed with a gun? Are there instances where existing gun laws have not been enforced? I think one potential area for tightening the laws is to ban straw purchases.

    As for your question of why someone needs a 30 or 100 round clip, here is an answer: If a weapon is effective in protecting your family or your property, then a weapon with that many rounds is more effective.

  2. #152
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,460

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    I mostly agree with you, but your post has nothing to do with what I asked.

    Why is it ok, to some people, to infringe on a constitutional right (the right to bear arms), but not ok to infringe on another constitutional right (the right to vote)?
    People will still have the right to bear arms and defend themselves....just not with military grade weapons and high velocity impact bullets. But how many people lost their right to vote because of the red states new voting laws and obstacles?

  3. #153
    Sage
    AliHajiSheik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:24 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,375

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Almost as good as the drug ban! Huzzah! And then...you will still have to deal with the reality that the vast majority of spree killings were actually committed with handguns. "WTG! WEEEEEE....we passed a ban!"
    Drugs are an unfair comparison since they are illegal and not mentioned in the Constitution. Plus, most people like drugs and people don't like when laws are passed and enforced against them. Drugs aren't dangerous except when used by people.

  4. #154
    Guru
    The Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    York, Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:01 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,726

    Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    People will still have the right to bear arms and defend themselves....just not with military grade weapons and high velocity impact bullets. But how many people lost their right to vote because of the red states new voting laws and obstacles?
    No one loses their right to vote because of photo ID requirements. So why is it ok to infringe upon one constitutional right but not another?

  5. #155
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,460

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Have any gun buyback programs actually been successful in reducing the rate of crime committed with a gun?
    Yes, Australia. Their gun buy back program dropped their suicide rate down by 80% and an almost equal number of homicides.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...ODMrqrrDOeiXcg


    Are there instances where existing gun laws have not been enforced? I think one potential area for tightening the laws is to ban straw purchases
    Yes, falsifying gun applications. It's a federal offense up to 10 years. In 1999, 175,000 known felons were caught falsifiying on their gun applications but only 3.2% were prosecuted....

    "... Of the 204,000 attempted purchases stopped by NICS in 1999, the BJS report states that 71 percent of the rejections were for a felony conviction or indictment, 12 percent were for a disqualifying domestic violence conviction and three percent were rejected because the applicant was a fugitive from justice. Thus, 86 percent (approximately 175,440 persons) of those rejected by the instant check system had de facto committed another felony by falsifying ATF Form 4473. However, federal firearm prosecutions in aggregate totaled only 6,728. Although the report indicated the statistics for 1999 are preliminary data, that is a prosecution rate of only 3.29 percent. To put it another way, for every thirty rejected applications for a firearm transfer, there was only one prosecution..."
    http://dingell.house.gov/sites/dinge...tters/reno.doc

    I agree with you about stopping the straw purchases, but I would also add closing the gunshow loophole and cracking down on corrupt federally licensed gun dealers who contribute to over 60% of illegal guns sold to criminals.


    As for your question of why someone needs a 30 or 100 round clip, here is an answer: If a weapon is effective in protecting your family or your property, then a weapon with that many rounds is more effective.
    If you can't defend yourself with 5 or 10 rounds then maybe you should get training.
    Last edited by Moot; 12-20-12 at 07:26 AM.

  6. #156
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,460

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    No one loses their right to vote because of photo ID requirements. So why is it ok to infringe upon one constitutional right but not another?
    Senior citizens did. Because they were old, a lot of them didn't have drivers licenses or the money or the stamina to stand in line for 6 hours just to get their IDs so they could vote and a lot of them didn't have the stamina to stand in line for 8 hours to vote. Did you have to wait that long to vote and if you did, would you have?

  7. #157
    Sage
    KevinKohler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    CT
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    15,972
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Who are you defending yourself from, that you need 100 round drums?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  8. #158
    Sage
    AliHajiSheik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:24 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,375

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yes, Australia. Their gun buy back program dropped their suicide rate down by 80% and an almost equal number of homicides.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...ODMrqrrDOeiXcg


    Yes, falsifying gun applications. It's a federal offense up to 10 years. In 1999, 175,000 known felons were caught falsifiying on their gun applications but only 3.2% were prosecuted....

    "... Of the 204,000 attempted purchases stopped by NICS in 1999, the BJS report states that 71 percent of the rejections were for a felony conviction or indictment, 12 percent were for a disqualifying domestic violence conviction and three percent were rejected because the applicant was a fugitive from justice. Thus, 86 percent (approximately 175,440 persons) of those rejected by the instant check system had de facto committed another felony by falsifying ATF Form 4473. However, federal firearm prosecutions in aggregate totaled only 6,728. Although the report indicated the statistics for 1999 are preliminary data, that is a prosecution rate of only 3.29 percent. To put it another way, for every thirty rejected applications for a firearm transfer, there was only one prosecution..."
    http://dingell.house.gov/sites/dinge...tters/reno.doc

    I agree with you about stopping the straw purchases, but I would also add closing the gunshow loophole and cracking down on corrupt federally licensed gun dealers who contribute to over 60% of illegal guns sold to criminals.


    If you can't defend yourself with 5 or 10 rounds then maybe you should get training.
    You did respond to my question about gun buybacks, a more relevant geography would be in the US. In my area, in Camden, NJ, they just had another gun buyback program that brought in about 1,000 "guns", we'll see how that does in a less friendlier place than Australia.

    I have mixed feelings about the "gun show loophole" since it really isn't even about gun shows, but a private transaction between two people. My understanding is that it does not counter any law regarding the authorization to own a gun, permit, license, or whatever.

    If you can't defend yourself with 5 or 10 rounds against 30 people, then you shouldn't take advice from others about clip sizes. I believe that people have the right to irrational fears as well as real ones and if that's what they want to have, then it is none of my business. If they break the law, then I expect government to enforce the law. If the numbers that you post are correct, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, then government officials should be prosecuted.

  9. #159
    Sage
    AliHajiSheik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:24 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,375

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Senior citizens did. Because they were old, a lot of them didn't have drivers licenses or the money or the stamina to stand in line for 6 hours just to get their IDs so they could vote and a lot of them didn't have the stamina to stand in line for 8 hours to vote. Did you have to wait that long to vote and if you did, would you have?
    This is an over generalization. Pennsylvania has the 2nd largest senior citizens population and also had the most extensive list of acceptable ID's, including those from nursing homes, and a voter ID from the state is free. We also didn't experience the lines described in places like Florida and we didn't have early voting. Even still, people who viewed any ID as an infringement on anyone got a stay against implementing voter ID for the past election only, which is fine, but it is still the law for all upcoming elections. Maybe older Pennsylvanians are hardier people, and the person who asked for my ID (optional this time) at the polling place was 85 years old.

  10. #160
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,573

    Re: Obama taps Biden to craft new policies to curb gun violence in wake of shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    No one loses their right to vote because of photo ID requirements. So why is it ok to infringe upon one constitutional right but not another?
    Because the left "ranks" rights according to their own scale. The ones they (ab)use are important, and not even an ID can be requested, the others must be "controlled" and classes, tests and large fees added to properly "infringe" upon their use. The fact that gun crime is already illegal is not enough, they demand that "preconditions" be added to those "bad" rights in the hopes that if some are OK, then more are even better. The prior (temporary) AWB did basically nothing to reduce gun crime but that is the first thing leftists wish to "re-instate" (but with added restrictions, no expiration date and, possibly, no "grandfather" clause).

    Note that the demorats do not wish to reduce gun crime (in general), as that is easily measurable and concentrated in those big blue urban centers - they wish to stop those "mass killings" which vary from none to 50 or more in any given year so, comming off of a record year, any firearms law change can now (using that single staistic) likely be said to have "worked".

    The prior AWB in a nutshell: Everything you need to know about the assault weapons ban, in one post
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

Page 16 of 26 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •